Very Frustrated with the housebreaking ......need help

[Conner'smom]

Conner is almost 4 months old now and I am getting really frustrated with the housebreaking thing. I know that doxies are a hard breed to housebreak, but I am running out of ideas. He will be in his crate all day long, both my husband and I work and we have no one to come in and let him out during the day. He will pee in his crate and just lay in it without care. I thought his crate was to big so I cut it off and he still does it! When I take him out when I get home he will pee and sometimes poops and then we go in. He will then poop inside even if he pooped outside! He will then play and then eat. Then after his meal I take him outside and he can be out there for 30-40 minutes and then I will let him in and he will pee on the carpet! I have tried taking him out on a leash to do this and either he will just lay down or tug and tug at the leash or better yet bite it. He sleeps with us and can hold it up to 8 hours a night, but a few nights ago he peed in the bed at 3am. I really dont know what to do. I am really frustrated. I tried using the potty pads and all he did was tear them up. Also I notice that he will pee anywhere if he is excited. I just dont understand that if he is outside for a while and doesnt pee or poop why does he do that? I praise him and give him a treat when he does do it correctly so I just dont get it. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks

[cps]

I know it can be very frustrating to housebreak these little guys! Hang in there!

Anyway - I work as a trainer and get lots of housebreaking questions from puppy owners.

First, it's important to know that physically, most dogs can't even begin to hold it in until they are about 4 mos. old. So Conner up is just starting to physically be able to hold it in. They don't develop the muscle control necessary until that age.

Most experts don't even recommend beginning housebreaking training until the dog is about 3-4 mos old. It will only frustrate you and your dog because he just isn't physically capable.

The general rule is they can hold it in for about 1 hour every monthy of age. So a 4 month old dog just physically can not go all day without a break. Maybe some dogs do, but it's likely very rare (holding it in at night is a different story - he's sleeping).

That's why he pees in his crate and lays in it - he can't help it - his body is not physically mature enough. He likely can't hold it in for more than 4-5 hours. So all day in the crate is WAY TOO LONG for him right now. He'll get there, don't worry - he just needs a little more time and patience.

If there is no one who can let Conner out in the day, then he really needs to be left in a puppy safe room, such as a kitchen, and paper trained for the time being. To train him on paper, just give lots of praise when he does it... most of the special pads at pet stores are scented and will naturally attract dogs to eliminate on them. He should not be left in a crate all day without a break at his age - he's too young.

You are doing the right thing praising him when he goes outside. Keep doing it. If you aren't giving him treats as soon as he's done going outside, you may want to consider it.

You might also want to try a command such as "go potty" or "do your business". As soon as he squats, say it. Eventually, hearing that command will cause him to have to go. It will take a while, so be patient.

Also, be sure to NOT scold him when he goes inside. If you catch him in the act, try to startle him by saying "hey!" or making a loud noise. Usually this interrupts them. Then pick him up (without scolding) and put him outside to finish, praising when he does. If you find an accident after the fact, simply clean it up and move on. I don't know if you do this, but do NOT rub his nose in it or scold him after the fact. Most dogs have very short (3-5 second) attention spans, so anything that happened in the past is long forgotten. He will have no idea what he's being scolded for, and rubbing his nose in it could cause behavioral problems later.

Also - do you always make him come inside immediately after he pees/poops? If he's always brought back inside (and wants to stay out and play some more) after he does his business, then he could be holding it in so he can stay outside. So when he does go outside, praise him and then let him stay out and play a little while longer. He may have made the connection that peeing is the end of the fun outside. So let him stay out a little longer so that he learns that eliminating doesn't always mean he has to come back inside.

Excitement peeing is a differnt kind of thing... I'd need more info. Does he pee when you get home? While playing? That's something that most puppies grow out of, as well. Right now you probably don't need to concern yourself with that as much. If he's still doing it at 1 year of age, then it's something to consult a vet about and possibly a trainer.

The main thing is to be consistent. Dogs do develop natual preferences for places to eliminate. If you continue to make going outside more fun, then when Conner is old enough and able to hold it in, he will wait to go outside to do it.

Some other suggestions which can help with housebreaking (and you may do these things already):
-Feed only at regular mealtimes on a schdule... don't leave food out all the time. This makes it very difficult to anticipate when they will have to eliminate. Most dogs have to go between 15-45 minutes after eating.
-Look for these signs: sniffing the ground, circling, walking to the door where he goes outside - but you have to be very attentive since they may only circle or sniff for a second or two!
-Let your dog drink all he wants but at scheduled meal times. Give him water a 1/2 hour before his meal and leave it out 1/2 hour afterwards. Make sure it's full and let him drink all he wants but don't leave it out all the time. Also make sure he gets water to drink after playing or a walk... your dog should never be thirsty, but he doesn't need to drink all the time. I used to mix in some water with my puppy's food to make sure they got enough. Now as adults they won't eat their food without water!
-Some triggers for needing to eliminate include eating, drinking, playing, exercise... make sure your dog has ample opportunity to go outside after any of these activities.
-SUPERVISION is extremely important. While you're home, he is still a young puppy and needs to be constantly supervised. You can tie a leash to your belt buckle to keep him in your sights. If dogs have accidents while we're home, it's more our fault than it is theirs.

But please have patience with him and know that he's proabably doing his best. Also please reconsider crating him all day at his age. It will only teach him that it's ok to go in his crate, and he is just too young to hold it in. Maybe a neighbor is home during they day who would be willing to let him out, or a dog walking service. Or even a neighbor kid who might love to walk the dog for a few dollars after school. You'd only need it for a short time until Conner is able to hold it in himself.

Since he's about 4 mos. you should start to see some improvement soon - maybe in another month or two...it does take a while, though. Once his body is mature enough, it will happen. Remember the general rule, though, that they can hold it in about 1 hour for every month of age.

Hope this helps!

[Conner'smom]

Thank you for the information it is really helpful. I let him play outside and he comes to the door so I assume that he is done when he is not. Should I go outside with him to play, I usually do because I worry that he will get into something he isnt suppose to....I guess just a concern mom. I have never rubbed his nose it, but how do they learn that its wrong to pee inside. He will do it right in front of me before I have a chance to stop him and take him outside. I never thought about leaving him in the kitchen all day long, but I know that he would not use the scented pads. My vet recommended to me to do the crate thing. So I assume I was doing a correct thing. Your information is very helpful, thank you

[DoeWDW]

We faced the dilemma of crating our puppy all day and decided against it. Maya is a 13 week old red shorthair. We cleared out a corner of the kitchen and bought a 4 foot by 4 foot exercise pen that can be folded up when necessary. At this point, we leave it up all the time.

In her kitchen pen, we leave her crate with the door open. We also leave a Purina Second Nature dog litter pan. We have trained her to use the litter pan for now until she's old enough to hold it all day in a crate.

I know this is an extra expense but after 3 weeks, we rarely have to clean up an accident and the accidents happen right next to the litter pan (she sniffs the pan when she's standing outside it and goes <IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm32.gif" border=0>

When we're home, she's either loose in the kitchen (baby gates at both doors) or leashed with one of us elsewhere in the house. I only take her in the rest of the house right after she's gone pee & poo to lessen the risk of an accident on our carpet.

This is how we handled the situation - your mileage may vary! Hope the info helps!

[LisaH]

Conner's Mom:

cps gave you very good advice. I agree that 8 hours is too long for a 4-month-old to hold it. I know I have trouble holding it that long, so I never ask Annie to except at night!

When Annie was little we gated her into a pantry area lined with newspapers so she could pee just about anywhere there. She had a great time ripping up the newspapers, but then while we were home we focused on taking her out often so she could "practice" going outside. We rewarded her for peeing outside, and ignored her peeing on the papers inside.

Now we use a pad for her while we're at work. It's to bad Conner tears them up, but he'll grow out of this as Annie grew out of tearing up her newspaper.

The suggestion of a "go pee" command is an excellent one. Say it just as he goes, to start with, and tell him he's a wonderful dog and give him a really special treat afterward. Once he's associated the command with peeing, he won't be able to help going when you say the magic words. Take him to the same spot every time, say the command, and reward him once he's gone. He'll get the idea.

Don't be discouraged--if you just practice with him over and over, and put the time into it, he won't be able to help "getting it" in the end. Just don't expect too much from him or from yourself, and do everything you can to minimize the number of accidents he has in the house. The main thing is to set up a habit for him of peeing outside.

Good luck!
Lisa and Annie

[OwnedByChaucer]

There has been excellent advice given--it also seems to depend on the size of the dog. Chaucer, who is a 16+ lb dachsie was able to hold it longer at a younger age than Gidget, who has topped out at 8 lbs.

Gidget was so small that we didn't even really make a serious start at housebreaking until she was close to 4 months old--at four months, she weighed like 4 pounds....I swear she peed like every 15 minutes...

D

[cps]

Sorry for the delay in responding - I've been on vacation.

The other recommendations you've gotten are all things I agree with - and the idea of getting an x-pen is a good one. I'ts more room than a crate, but not as much freedon as an entire room. (Also good to take with you to other people's houses).

And Conner will grow out of the chewing everything up phase. That's just a puppy thing. Make sure to give him lots of puppy-safe chew toys. Rawhides are great, but he MUST be supervised and take small bits he could choke on away from him before anything can happen. Otherwise a Kong is a great chew toy (if you don't know what that is - it's a snowman-shaped hard rubber hollow toy you can stuff treats inside of). Fill it with all sorts of good smelly stuff and his nose will tell him that's a more fun chew toy than anything else. I like to put some beef-flavored baby food layered with dog kibble and freeze it overnight - keeps 'em busy for at least 45 minutes!

As far as going outside with him to play, right now while housebreaking it's beneficial for you to be with him. First, you can see whether or not he actually goes when he's out there. Second, it gives you the opportunity to praise him when he does. That's very important in getting him to prefer going outside.

As far as how he will learn to not go inside, well, he just will. Basically, dogs live in dens and they instinctively do not like to soil their dens. He will eventually learn that your house is his den, and won't soil it. But it takes a little while to learn because our homes are so pretty large dens!

Dogs also develop preferences for where they like to eliminate. If it's extremely positive for him every time he goes outside (such as lots of praise and treats) then he'll start to think it's a pretty good deal to do it outside.

As far as him going inside, you can say a firm "no" - no need to yell, though. Get his attention by saying "hey" or "eh-eh" and rush over there telling him no. Pick him up and take him outside to finish, praising him when he does. If he has already finished inside, you should still take him outside. He needs to learn the association between eliminating and going out.

Also, perhaps he needs to be more closely supervised. I know when mine were quiet, that was usually a sign that something was going on! NEVER let him out of your sight (that's also a safety issue - puppies can get into lots of stuff that's dangerous to them). If you can't watch him, then he needs to be crated, penned or in a puppy safe room. Attaching a leash to your belt is a good way to keep them in close range.

And I also recommend crate training. It is certainly a very useful tool and can help in the housebreaking process when done correctly. But factors like how long a puppy can hold it in need to be considered, that's all.

If you can't let Conner out during a long stretch, then crating during the day may not be the right method for your puppy right now. BUT you can still use the crate when you're home.

What I used to do is crate them while I was home, and every time I let them out of the crate they went straight outside. I'd bring the crate right to the door, so the only place they could go was out! If they eliminated, they got to come inside and play freely for a while. If not, they went back in the crate for about 1/2 hour, and then out again. And over and over and over! So they rarely had the opportnity to go inside, but lots of opportunity to go outside and get praise.

I know it can be frustrating... I was posting questions like crazy when I first got my puppies (I got 2 at once) but I had so much fun training them that I studied to become a trainer! So yes, it does take a lot of patience, a lot of work and a lot of time in the beginning. But it does get better. http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

These guys live a long time, so a few hectic months in the beginning will go by fast!

[Augie Dog]

How is the poopeedo training going?

Aug did the same thing yours did up till about 6 months.

Pee pad were a toy for a while too.

[Conner'smom]

Potty training is doing so much better. He has only had 1 accident in about 2 weeks. If I say lets go outside he goes right to the door. I know sometimes he goes to the door when I am not asking if he wants to go, so I have to think of something to put there like a bell or something to let me know that he wants outside. He also is kenneled while I am at work and so far no pee or poop in the kennel....he is in there for 8 hours! I make sure he goes before and there is water in there but he doesnt seem to drink alot of it so maybe he is learning that sitting in pee all day isnt fun! Thanks for all the advice it really helped. So far so good...I just hope it continues

[Augie Dog]

Aug and Bud are bell trained.

When they gotta go, they ring the bell.

Aug is a brat though......

If he wants a treat, he rings the bell.
If he wants attention, he rings the bell.
If he wants to interupt diner, he rings the bell.
If he wants to be a pain in the butt, he rings the bell.

All of the above however, is better than the alternitive.

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Augie Dog on November 10, 2001 at 05:01 PM</font>