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[Twinkerbean]

Dante who is about 15 months old, and having a slight over eating problem keeps sneaking the puppy food. I have tried putting it up, but if someone forgets, he will eat it when no one is watching. I worry only because it seems to be giving him the runs, and he is getting on the fat side anyway. He doesn't need more calories or more fat, which is found in puppy food.

Cayenne seems interested in his food, but I think it may be way too early to switch her over to it. (she is only 8 weeks old) This also brings up the possibility that Dante will eat her food as well, and he doesn't need more. I can barely feel his ribs as it is.

Any suggestions?

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oops, I forgot to put a topic. Hard to type with a pup in your lap sometimes.

[dutchman]

Try using a special place for Cayenne to eat. Perhaps setting aside a quiet time and feeding in a kennel with the door closed the food would get eaten and nothing would be left for Dante to eat. You could also setup an x-pen that only Cayenne is allow in and use that as a designated feeding area. One thing you might consider doing is adding a little soft boiled egg and or cottage cheese to Cayenne's food so that is so appealing that nothing is left in the dish. I know both of these practices are used for adult dogs that are food aggressive and I suspect they might work for your problem as well. Feeding the the kennel can help make the kennel a rewarding place to be which can be a bonus if you kennel your dogs when you are not home.

Good luck,

Tom and the boys (Frank and Tanner)

[Krista]

As the mom of two dachshunds with very different eating habits, I had to lay down some rules about food.

First off, we have set meal times. The food is down for no more than 20 minutes at meal times and then it is picked up. If they don't eat, tough.

My boys are fully grown, so twice a day feedings work well for them. They eat at about 7am and 7pm everyday. Puppies at 8 weeks should be eating 4 times a day from what my breeder said. She recommends 4 times up to 14-16 weeks old and then 3 times until 6 mos of age and 2 times a day after that.

If I cannot watch them eat and keep them from only their own dish, then they have to be fed separately. Roscoe has to go into the x-pen with his food until Rudy is done eating and I have picked up both dishes.

This way they learn to depend on you for food and they learn to eat when you want them too. It also enables you to precisely measure how much they are eating so you can adjust it accordingly with their weight situation. You might want to try a schedule of set feedings and feeding them separately.

[Twinkerbean]

All, good things. However, I feed Dante and Cayenne on different sides of the room. I am not sure what an X-pen is. Please excuse my ignorance. Also maybe I am not feeding Dante enough, if he is to be fed twice a day. What would be the recomendation for a 17 lb Dachsie when you can't feel his ribs?

I am pretty sure I am feeding Cayenne enough, but making her food softer might make it go faster. I worry about her getting too greedy as well, can that happen?

[Krista]

An x-pen, or excersize pen, is a portable pen that can be used outdoors or indoors. it has no bottom or top, just sides made out of 8 or more panels, depending on size. www.midwesthomes4pets.com (http://www.midwesthomes4pets.com) makes the one I have. You could accomplish the same thing by maybe feeding one in a crate or feeding one in a different room, babygated in.

If you cannot easily feel your adult dog's ribs, then he is overweight. My preferred method for weight loss in dogs is to keep them on a high quality adult maintainence food, but just feed less of it. If the dogs acts hungry on the reduced rations, you can give them some steamed green beans, no salt canned green beans, or canned unspiced pumpkin as a low calorie filler.

Each food is different in caloric content, so I can't say how much you should feed. Dog food is measured in kcals. Most dog foods have between 325 - 750 kcals per cup, but that is still a wide range. (You often have to call or email the company to find out how many kcals per cup are in a food.) For my 11 and 14 pound boys, I have found that 350 -425 (depending on activity level) kcals per day work well to maintain their weight at the ideal. That is usually 3/4 -1 cup of food per dog per day (divided equally into 2 meals) with the foods I have tried.

Remember feeding guidelines on bags, are just that -guidelines. Your dog may need more or less than the suggested amount. When you look at feeding guidelines though, make sure you look at the amounts for what your dog should weigh ideally, rather than what he weighs now.

What are you feeding him now, and how much does he get per day?

[Twinkerbean]

My husband was feeding him about a cup and a half a day (because he liked it so much). When I found out, I cut him back to 1 cup a day, once a day. He never really felt like eating but once a day before. Maybe with smaller portions he wants to eat more often. I feed him, and he has always been fed Pro Plan dog food. I am also feeding Cayenne the puppy version. I switched her over from the Purina puppy chow the gal I got her from was feeding her. She seemed to like the Pro Plan much better any way. (I blended them to get her used to the new food. I thought it would take a couple days, but it didn't take more than one.)

Also, does anyone have any oppinion on the Super Yard by North States? I noticed that this sells for $20 less at Toys R Us than a pet store. Probably even cheaper at Wally World (aka: Wal-Mart)

[dutchman]

Every food and every dog is different so it's really impossible to give someone else guidelines on how much an individual animal should be eating. Remember that the food producers are in business to sell food and the guidelines printed on the bags is generally more than the average dog needs to maintain a healthy weight. I feed a combination of Avo-Derm and Avo Active Care both of which have a slightly high calorie count but Frank my 19.5# trim 2.5 year old gets slightly less than half a cup twice a day. Tanner my 13.5# 3 year old gets less than 1/4 of a cup twice a day and still can't loose the pound he needs to get rid of. To measure food I use a measure that I purchased at a cooking store. IT is a clear cylinder that is calibrated in many different units and pushes up and down on a yellow base. I find with this measure it's much easier to be precise on how much they are being feed than with a standard measuring cup. Also some of the units of measure are very small so it is easy to make small adjustments in their food intake.

As far as x-pens go Midwest is the most popular in this region and you generally can get the best prices by shopping at the dog shows. I don't know the product you referred to so I can't comment on it. I do know that for regular gates you can purchase identical products (only the packaging is different) as kid gates for much less than you purchase them as dog gates in a pet store. IF you choose to order an x-pen watch out what they charge for shipping. The first one I had (it was too low for Frank gut worked grate for the little girl I had then) I got a great close out price but then they nailed me with a $25 shipping and handling charge. Speaking of heights my original pen was 24" and kept Aggie in with no problem. When I got Frank he would hop right over it so I got a 36" tall one. Guess what the first time I left him home alone in it he got out. He had to have gone over the top so I now have one that Is either 42" or 48" tall I can't remember for sure. The x-pens are also great to take along on family outings. It's a good safe place to put the dogs while you are eating or taking part in activities.

Tom and the boys (Frank and Tanner)

[Krista]

I have a 24" high 8 panel x-pen (each panel is 2'x 2') and I paid about $70 for it at the local pet supply.

Tom, what is the calorie count of Avo-Active per cup do you know? I am keepin a spreadsheet with info I know about dog foods, such as kcals per cup, protein percentage and carbo percentage. I was told AVO-Derm is only 341 kcals per cup, which compared to a lot of other premium foods is pretty low. (Innova adult =575, Healthwise chicken adult =536, FRR chicken = 477, SG Millenia =456, Azmira beef =765...etc)

I don't know about Pro Plan caloric count. I'll try to find out.

[dutchman]

Hi Krista,

I can't remember the calorie count off the top of my head but if you go to their web site www.avoderm.com (http://www.avoderm.com) you should be able to get the numbers for all their products.

Tom

[dutchman]

Hi Krista,

I just had time to check the Avo web site it list Derm original as 430, Active Care as active care is 365. So I guess they are not high calorie foods like someone told me. In fact it's a good thing Tanner prefers a higher ratio of Active Care to Derm since he is the one that needs to loose weight.

Tom

[Krista]

Thanks Tom! I'll check the site out and put that info on my spreasheet. I bet my friend is feeding a different Avo-derm formula....I though 341 sounded low for the original formula.

I wish Breeders-Choice products were available near me! I even emailed the company last year and asked and the closest retailer was more than 3 hours away. http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/frown.gif

[Twinkerbean]

Ok, I called Pro Plan. The Chicken and Rice adult formula has 441 calories per cup. with protein percentage of 26.10 and carb percent 41.69. The Pro Plan Puppy Chicken and Rice is 473 calories per cup. Just for anyone's information.

Thank you for all your help. I think I just need to pick Cayenne's food up right away, and we will be fine. I have also split Dante's meals to twice a day 1/2 cup each.

[dutchman]

Just a quick correction on how much each of my boys get feed. Frank gets 1/3 cup twice a day (he refuses to eat any more and some times leaves part of this). Tanner gets about 7 teaspoons (barely over 1/8 cup) twice a day. I told you the measuring cylinders I use for my boys are precise. There are 48 teaspoons in a cup. I do sometimes get a little generous and heap the food up above the top of the rim giving them perhaps another teaspoon of food. If I don't watch the boys eat or take other special precautions Frank will often leave his dish at which point Tanner will sneak in an polish off his brothers food. This is especially back when you realize that when you combine this with his own meal he ends up getting a day and a half food intake in one sitting. Perhaps I'll have to start supplement Tanners meals with some green beans.

The boys do average two pupperoni sticks or the like each work day as that is their reward for kenneling up when I go to work (morning and noon). They also average one to three other treats in an average week. Then there is the endless supply of rawhides, bullie sticks, etc that I suppose add some calories but helps with the dental health.

Tom

[Twinkerbean]

Thank you all for your help. I got the pen I mentioned, it is plastic which may be a draw back, for a chewie dog, but seems to be working ok so far. I am not exactly sure of the x-pen training method. I crate trained Dante, and that seemed to work pretty well.

I also got a measuring cup for each fur child's food. A 1/8 cup for Cayenne, for her 4 meals a day. and a 1/2 cup for Dante for his 2 meals a day. I think Dante and I could stand to go for a long walk or jog a few times a week as well. (not just for him)