Bones & Raw Food Diet

[im rapunzel]

With many thanks to "boheime," I have decided to start Wobbles & Velvet on the BARF diet!

Part of what had my hesitation was all the prep work of the food. Turns out that I found a company which prepares the food and is available to buy ready made! The product is called "Home Made 4 Life" and is available on the VERY informative Aunt Jeni's Home Made website, www.auntjeni.com (http://www.auntjeni.com) The food is a combo of bones, meat, vegetables/fruit and flax seed processed together, all of which are human grade and correctly measured.

They have mixes for dogs, cats & even ferrets! For dogs, it comes in 1 or 3 lb. containers which arrive frozen and you can thaw out 3-5 days worth at a time. They have 4 varietes for dogs - beef, lamb, chicken & rabbit. All you have to do is bring it to room temp and feed. For doxies, they reccomend 1/2 cup a day (for 10 lb dog.)

Since my dogs are about 12 lbs, I plan on also adding small amount of additional raw food, such as a chicken wing or neck.

There are a few distributors in some states, so you may be able to get it without having to go through the mail. However, those retailers can/will price it as they like. If you buy directly from Aunt Jeni's, its $2.95 a lb. plus shipping. To me, that's worth it! I could see my grocery bill going sky high if I were to purchase ingredients locally, plus I can cut out the prep work! I'd rather not handle chicken carcasses or beef hearts unless I really have to! Ick!

If you have any doubts or questions about feeding raw food, you really should check out the site. It has SO MUCH great information!

I will get the shipment next week, and will let you all know how the dogs like it. Maybe I'll let Rocky try some too, after all, squirrels are scavengers in the wild!

[Owen's Mom]

I feed pre-made raw too. I have a little doggie boutique just down the street that stocks the Steve's Real Food product and it's oh so handy. I incorporate raw meaty knuckle bones, neck bones and chicken necks to stretch it out a bit. I feel great about feeding raw and love the convenience of being able to buy it prepared http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[Mandy]

I hope some of the links were helpful. I'm sorry it took so long for me to e-mail you. (Let's just say that our area now has a new internet company and there shouldn't be anymore e-mail problems).

We make our own BARF. Making the switch was one of the best choices we ever made where it comes to the fur-kids.

[im rapunzel]

Hi eveyone-

Just wanted to let you know today was the first time I fed the dogs the BARF diet. They LOVED IT!

I must admit, I was afriad to open the container - I didn't know what sort of nastiness I might see! It actually was'nt bad to look at or scoop! Also, it smells mostly like garlic.

Since I'm just starting the dogs on it, I mixed it with some food. I'll continue to do it that way for about a week. After that, I will then feed them just the premade BARF food and a chicken neck or back. That way they'll have bones to crunch which is good for their teeth.

If anyone else who has their dogs on this diet has any advice, I'd really appreciate your feedback!

Regards,
Cindy, Rich, Rocky, Wobbles & Velvet

[ryley and scratches]

wow, this all new to me! I am very interested in opinions on giving the pups this food and also "people" food .I have scratch who is a little anemic so i give her liquid vitamins and I give both of them cottage cheese occasionally, but its IAms for the most part ,,,,,,,, give me your feedback on what everyone else does nutritionally

[Mom of Freddie and FG]

Well, I currently feed Innova www.naturapet.com (http://www.naturapet.com) but apparently it's too rich or something for my male, Freddie. His triglycerides are high. He also needs to loose a few pounds. I like Innova because it's human-grade. I personally don't have the patients to prepare homemade.

I was just in my Vets office today, and I tried to get her opinion on the BARF diet. She doesn't agree with it, says it's not good for dogs. I then said that I've heard that the dog's digestive tract is designed to "kill" or "break down" the bacteria and that it's safe. She said "That is NOT true"! "It's not safe at all". I said I there is so much info and more and more people are switching to BARF. Know what she said? "That is a bunch of crap"! "Don't believe all what you read on the internet."

So then I proceeded in saying that Veterinarians do not cover much on nutrition in school. She agreed and she then said, "That is why we rely on Vets in nutrition from Davis to keep us informed." I didn't know that's what they do. Anyway, she was telling me to add more fiber to his diet. I asked what kind, and she said beet pulp is one. Well I thought beet pulp wasn't good!

Anyway...long story short, now I'm as confused as ever!http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/frown.gif So tonight I bought

Nutro Naturals chicken & rice (my dogs have had it before and like it) and I will mix it with the Innova until the Innova is gone. I hope this helps with his tryglycerides, maybe the Innova is too rich for him.<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm36.gif" border=0> Anyway, you just don't know what to believe on pet nutrition anymore! I had someone tell me that the BARF diet is actually KILLING our today's domesticated dogs! So whatever!http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Susan

[Krista]

There are also vets and pet nutritionists who have developed raw diets and/or promote raw diets.

There are books and websites on both kinds of feeding saying the other is awful for your dog. Some sites say raw feeding is killing dogs some sites say kibble is killing dogs.

Some sites and vets don't agree with either statment.

Some sites and vets say only homecooked is best....

Each person has to do their own research and feed a diet they feel comfortable with be it raw, homecooked or kibble.

I like my vet, but I'm not going to feed a food just because they suggest it. I've done my some reading up on the subject and I'll keep learning as much as I can about canine nutrition on my own and make my own informed decisions.

I personally think that raw, homecooked, and high quality kibbles are all good options. It is up to us to find out what works best for our situations.

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Krista on February 01, 2002 at 08:28 AM</font>

[Owen's Mom]

Well, I have two vets. A homeopathic vet and a my primary vet who accepts homeopathic ideas, but primarily treats with western medicine. The homeopathic vet recommends a raw diet to ALL of his clients. My primary vet supports my feeding of a raw diet but sells Innova and CA Natural. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. I have an amazingly healthy dog who's weight stays stable, who only goes to the vet once a year to get a titer test done (I do NOT boost yearly), who has a beautiful coat, no allergies, and no digestive upset. How can a vet argue with that?

Different vets have different opinions and you have the ability to pick the vet that meshes with your philosophy, which is what I have done. A friend feeds BARF to all three of her dogs, they look amazing, they have no allergies, weight problems etc. They went to a vet for titers and the vet was VERY negative about feeding BARF. She admited that they looked great, were healthy dogs, but she couldn't support them being fed raw. They now see another vet that advocates raw feeding (The same Homeopath I use on occasion).

If you meet 20 different vets you'll probably get 20 different opinions on nutrition.

My raw fed boy
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[Mandy]

As for the dog's digestive tract...The acid in a dog's stomach is comparable in molarity to battery acid, so the majority of bacteria are killed there. Some bacteria will move on through, but it's not a problem in a healthy dog. E. coli, which causes problems in humans, does not cause problems in the stomach - but in the intestines. A dog's intestinal tract is much shorter than a human's (human's are omnivores, built to digest grains...where as dogs are secondary carnivores, not built to digest grains). The bacteria doesn't hang out long enough in the short digestive tract to do anything. A BARF fed dog's food goes through the entire digestive tract in about 8 hours (kibble takes about 24 hours as the body tries to extract any nutrients it can, as their bodies are not built to digest kibble).

Raw meat diets...a lot of vets have issues with raw meat only diets. So do I. Raw meat alone is not a well-balanced diet. You need the bone and organ meats, some vegetables, etc. to get all of the nutrients. As for the vets who have issues witha balanced biologically appropriate raw food diet....chances are they haven't done their own research. And can you really expect them to know when the only info. They receive is a seminar paid for by Hills? Need help starting up your own vet clinic? Hills is there to help...you just need to sell their food. And anyone who has a connection to a dog food company doesn't have much clout, in my opinion. You can't be objective when you want to make a profit.

Frankly, I wouldn't believe what anyone has to say about nutrtition when they make a profit on it in some way...and vets do make profit on selling kibble...quite a substantial portion in fact. Most vets don't tell you that vaccinating yearly is over-vaccinating, either.

Honestly, I don't take anyone's word. There is no way that you can know if they have an agenda such as making profit, or if they even know what they are talking about. ALWAYS do your own research! Don't accept things without knowing the facts behind it. And take into consideration where the facts are coming from.

If only kibble is supposedly safe, I'd like to know what these people think canines ate for the millenia before kibble was invented. Kibble has only been available for around 70 years, give or take a few.

I've done my research (extensive research). I know what I think and feel on the topic. We feed a biologically appropriate raw food diet. We will NEVER feed kibble again.

Ryley and Scratches mom - you might want to check out Dr. Tom Lonsdales book...I thihk you would like his diet suggestions.



<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Mandy on February 01, 2002 at 01:47 PM</font>

[dutchman]

Hi Mandy,

You might want to check the following link <a href="http://www.vetinfo.com/dbacterial.html#E. coli and death of a pet">http://www.vetinfo.com/dbacterial.html#E. coli and death of a pet</a>. Right now I don't have time to look up the secondary link mentioned in that article. I do know the Vet Head of Emergency Medicine at the CSU VTH who taught the pet first aid class I attended last year stated E Coli is a threat to dogs. It's less of a threat to them than it is to humans but they do get multiple cases every year.

Tom

[Mandy]

I'm not saying that bacteria cannot possibly affect a dog, but in a healthy dog, E. coli is not a threat. Dogs who have problems with E. coli generally are having other problems with their immune systems. Studies have shown more cases of E. coli in kibble fed dogs than in natural diet fed dogs.

Anything is always a possibility. Dogs can possibly choke on raw bones, but they have just as much chance or more of choking on kibble. Dogs can have problems with bacteria, but this can happen with kibble, too. There are no guarantees in life. However, knowing that I feed the best possible diet for my dogs lets me know that I am helping them to fight off infections by providing them with the best diet to provide for a healthy immune system.

Everyone should do their research though so that they can feel the best about what they are feeding their dogs. Please don't blindly follow what someone else says (myself included). Researching and making your own decisions is crucial.

[Mom of Freddie and FG]

My Vet obviously does not like talking about nutrition. She said to me, "I don't want to get into it with you." Probably because she does make a profit off of Hill's. According to her, home-made food is the best. She also thinks Pedigree kibble is actually a pretty good kibble. Whatever. Pros and cons to everything.

If I can't talk to my Vet about nutrition then something's wrong. I think I'll find a new Vet.