Mitzi is now trying pumkin with

[Frzframe]

her food. But, I'm not sure how much to let her have. Can any give me a clue?

You see we just had her check up at the vet and she weighed in at 14.8!! I thought we were doing better but now she needs to shed 3 pounds instead of 2.

I've cut her food back once again so this is what she gets: 1/8 cup of dry in the morning
and a 1/4 cup in the evening. She gets Nutro dog food sometimes the reg. and sometimes the senior (this is becuase we switch off for our 10 year old Emily.) She gets one Mother Hubbered biscut (a small one) Monday -Friday to get her into her kennel while everyone is away at work. Once in awhile she'll get a baby carrot.

We walk her every day for at least 10 -20 mins. Plus we play fetch and chase (it's either chase to catch Mitzi who has the toy or chase me who has the toy).

She isn't to hot for green beans unless I hand feed them to her but she loves pumkin. What else can I do to help her with those few extra pounds?

Shonda and a pudgy Mitzi Moo

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Frzframe on January 26, 2002 at 11:00 PM</font>

[dutchman]

Tanner my boy who at 13.5# could stand to loose about a pound only gets a little less than 1/8 cup of food twide a day. I need to weigh him again and no excuses for not doing so I purchased a digital shipping scale at Sam's before Christmas just so I can get accurate weights on my boys. He is getting Avo Active Care with just a small amount of Avo-Derm mixed in. He also averages about two peperonies a day (reward for kenneling). When the boys are treated to 9" bullies Tanner will consume his in less than a day and then try to steal Franks. They get about one of those a month.

Can you increase to walks so that they are 30-45 minutes? Not sure about how much punkin or green beans to add since I haven't used either one.

Tom and the boys (Frank and Tanner)

[Mandy]

I would try her with some other veggies. Try anything low in cals and sugars. Some vegetables are low in cals but high in carbs and sugars - which negate what you are trying to do.

I would take more kibble away and replace that amount with veggies. You want the veggies to fill her up and make her feel full while not giving all of the calories that the kibble has.

How much pumpkin are you giving? You don't want to go overboard on amounts of veggies.

Also, take a good look at your kibble. Most kibbles have fat. Fats are used to make the kibble palatable enough for dogs to eat and are also in some fo the preservatives. You don't want the kibble to have the wrong types of fat. Also, you want the kibble to be high protein...so meat should be the top ingredients (not meat meal and definitely not anything else). I wouldn't bother with the low-cal foods either. The low-cal foods tend to have other junk added in for bulk...so yes, lower calories, but they are adding a lot of thing sthat you really don't want your dog eating.

You might also consider a non-kibble diet.

[Krista]

I agree with the philosophy of feeding regular adult maintainence foods that are high quality in smaller amounts rather than trying senior or lite foods for the most part. It seems that many senior and lite diets are too high in carbohydrates for many dogs to really lose weight.

You DO want to see specific animal protein sources at the top of the ingredient lists such as chicken, chicken meal, lamb, lamb meal, turkey, turkey meal...etc. You DON'T want to see things like meat meal, meat byproducts, poultry meal or poultry byproducts.

As to the pumpkin or green bean trick, the most I have heard people suggest is replacing 1/3 of the normal kibble amount with the veggie matter. I seem to see people recommending trying amounts between 10% and 30% of the amount they should be eating when at their ideal weight. I really can't say how much is too much, because I don't know for sure. My boys currently don't have a problem with excess pounds so I've never actually had to try it.

The thing is, its hard to know how much they should eat at their ideal weight, if you have never been able to keep them at that weight. You can't trust the feeding guidelines on the bag really, as each dog is different. Take dutchman's Tanner and compare him to my Rudy for instance. Tanner is probably getting about 100 calories or less from kibble a day and is needing to lose weight. My Rudy (11 pounds) needs about 400 calories a day to maintain his weight, any less and he'll start losing. So neither one of us can go with what the bags of food say, we have had to adjust feeding amounts based on our experience with each dog.

[Frzframe]

I really like what Nutro does for the fur of our two. Emily who has very bad skin (has all her life) does much better on it. But I'll double check to see what it has in it. I know I did when we 1st started buying it but I can't remember now.

Also Mitzi does get carrots but not very many. I haven't tried her on much else except for broccoli which she turned her nose up at. And let me tell you that was a 1st cause she eats anything.

Should I cut down even more? She is already so hungery. And when she is hungery she is a brat. She gets into and tears up everything. Plus she's been eating her poo which she didn't do before. She'll ask to go out and hunt the yard for any missed poo and chow down before I can stop her.

I don't want to go with raw food such as BARF but I also don't want to have to put her on r/d food from the vet.

As to walking extra by the time I get home it's already dark outside. And I only have a 30 min lunch break so that would leave the mornings and I hate to admit this but I am NOT a morning person. But maybe I'll try harder playing with her inside. She gets into that tucked tail run fairly easy and is easy to keep her going until she falls over.

Another question? How do I know she needs to lose weight? She doesn't seem 3 pounds overweight to me. But that is what her vet said and I trust him.

Thanks for the info.
Shonda

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Frzframe on January 28, 2002 at 05:15 PM</font>

[dutchman]

The old rib test is a good way to judge if a dog is overweight. You should be able to easily feel the individual ribs. On a typical dachshund if you have to hunt for them then they are most likely a pound or more overweight, if you can't find them then you are even more overweight. Also there should be a good tuck to the stomach. Now you also don't want to go too far the other way when the ribs are stick out.

Avo-Derm is another food that works well for many skin and coat problems. It can be hard to locate a local dealer since they don't sell through any of the chains or grocery stores. In my case I get it at a local feed store.

Don't forget do not fed onions. Onions cause a blood disorder in dogs that can be fatal.

Tom

[~Jen~]

Shonda,

Some dogs are just built more hefty also. For example Sassie weighs right at 13lbs (she had pups 3mos ago remember) she ate puppyfood when she was pregnant and nursing.
She put on the weight lemme tell you http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/shock.gif once the puppies were weaned we tried just reducing her kibble to 1/4c. a day total that didn't seem to do the trick. Sassie is noramlly a 12lbs dog she is a thick dog lots of extra skin its just her build shes heavy boned http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/flower.gif
Right now i have her on low cal diet Sensible Choice reduced Cal and she has lost the pound she needed to loose to get back to her old self i always say she should weigh about 11 1/2lbs but my vet assures me she looks wonderful and healthy so i guess thats all that matters.
Does your vet feel your dog is overweight?
Like Tom says feel for the ribs if you can feel them then your good if you have to dig for them ... well then you might want to consider more games of fetch and walks http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif
BTW I don't normally think many reduced calorie foods are any good but i can say that i have good experience with her on the SC Low Cal. The rest of my gang eats regular adult maintance or puppyfood depending on age http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

Good Luck
Jenhttp://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/uh-oh.gif

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by ~Jen~ on January 29, 2002 at 08:39 AM</font>

[Mutzie's Mom]

My Mutzie at her peak was 16+ lbs. She loved to eat. She was a mini, too. She frequently spent the night with the neighbors who thought it was so cute to watch Mutzie clean each and every plate after dinner. She got so bad that there wasn't even an inch between her belly and the ground. We immediately put her on some diet dog food. That was a mistake. Those types of foods are full of rice and other fillers. This makes the dog use the bathroom all the time. We were told to limit her to 1 cup of dry food a day. A food that had lots of protein and vitamins. Instead of doggie treats, we gave her baby carrots. They became her favorite food. She always loved human food more than dog food. She really thought she was getting away with something by eating baby carrots. It really worked. It was psychological for her. She lost 5 pounds in 1 year. At 11 pounds, she looked too thin. I really think she was a "tweenie." I hope that helps!

Sherry

[doxiegirl4]

Shonda~~ If your doxie is hungry all the time you might try feeding several small meals a day. It works great for my kids. It helped my kids to curb the all day hungrys. I feed them a small amount of good kibble, fresh salmon (cooked and deboned of course) it's really good for skin and coat, cooked peas and carrots, and rice. My snitzels have done wonderfully on it. I fed this to an older PLUMP senior I adopted and she slimmed down and purked right up. Not to mention she ended up with a shiny health coat. Hope this helps.
Vikki<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm16.gif" border=0>

[wiporwil]

Willie has been on a green bean diet for 2 weeks now. He gets 1/3 cup of dry food and 1/2 can unsalted green beans for breakfast then for dinner. He has slimmed down nicely. He loves his baby carrots for snack and actually loves his green beans too. Some nights he will get a treat of some popcorn with no butter and very little salt. He has more energy since he lost weight. Before he seemed to just want to be a couch potato. Since it is winter he doesn't get the excercise he needs. So the green beans has helped our Willie.
Denise

[Frzframe]

Once again we've cute back on Mitzi's food - now she is gets a 1/16 cup of dry in the am and 1/8 cup of dry with a tablespoon of pumpin in the pm. Since we've had an ice storm she hasn't been getting her daily walks but she does get her fetch time.

She also gets a baby carrot and a small biscut once a day.

Tomorrow we are taking her to the vet to check her weight (we have to take Emily in for a check up).

I can feel her ribs but I can't count them so hopefully she only has to loose a lb.

One good thing about Mitzi is her fur. It is sooooo soft. She has a very beautiful coat.

Shonda

[Augie Dog]

Whao!

Let's see, you guy have mini's. I see 1/8th of a cup here and 1/2 there. I just can't imagine those amounts with my guys. It would be like going to a REALLY nice place to eat and the big plate comes out with this itty bitty piece of something on it with a sprig of mint.

WHERE'S THE BEEF!?!

OK, I am guilty of spoiling my guys rotten. Yes, they are over weight. But, not that they can not function or anything. When we fed kibble only, they had a full cup a day with treats (greenie, chips, pretzles) Now we are trying a little barf. 1/2 cup kibble with a chicken thigh and apple or 1/2 cup veggie.

They are maintaing their weight. Some of your puppers are 11 pounds. OK, Aug is my standard, 3 times the size of that at 33 pounds, Bud is now 19 pounds and holding.

I don't know, maybe I should be feeding them less. But, they are strong, active and healthy, just a little chubby. I guess I feel the same way about myself. Then again, if I would not do something (be a skinny muscle head) why should I put my pups though that. :D

[Mom of Freddie and FG]

Well you can include Freddie to "Weight Watchers" too! I'm trying to knock off 3-4 lbs. on him. My Vet suggested 1/2 cup total. Not very much! :(
I know I've been guilty of not walking him regularly also. So that will help! :)

DAVID, you crack me up! I just see you eating (or trying to) in some fancy French resturant! You'd probably need a magnifing glass to see the food! <img border="0" alt="[Lol]" title="" src="graemlins/lol.gif" /> Remember that commercial with the little ol lady, "Where's the BEEF"!? HA!

Susan

[Krista]

yes my Rudy weighs 11 pounds, and is a lean boy at that. He has a high metabolism though and actually tends to lose weight rather than gain it. I saw his grandsire and at 10 years old, he was still just as lean as Rudy is today at age 2 1/2. Rudy also gets more calories than many larger dachsies. he gets 400 or so calories a day, which equals about about 3/4 -1 cup of food with the kibbles I have fed.

Amounts mean nothing really because we are not comparing apples to apples here. Foods caloric content varies greatly from brand to brand. Some people here might be feeding a food with 340 calories per cup and others might be feeding a food with 550 calories per cup, it makes a big difference in the amount fed.

I'm chubby, I admit I need to lose some weight, but that is my choice and my health that I'm risking. My dogs are too important to me to put at risk. I just see being overweight as one of the leading contributors to dachshund back troubles and being a healthy weight as one of the best preventative options out there. I rib test my boys every week and make sure they are getting the right amount of food for their activity level. Its important to me to keep them at an ideal weight if at all possible.

[Augie Dog]

ok, now I am confused.

(it sometimes don't take much)

how in the heck do you get the calories on stuff like kibble? the just list the stuff that is in it.

[Krista]

dog food energy content is measure in kilocalories, or kcals. Many foods now list the kcals per cup of food on their bags or on their website. Others will give you the information if you call or email them and ask how many kcals per cup.

I cannot remember exactly but I believe Innova has 500 -550 kcals per cup depending on the formula. I have seen foods as low as 300 calories and as high as 750 calories per cup. Obviously this dramatically affects how much should be fed.

Through closely watching Rudy and Roscoe's weight and monitoring how much food they eat, I have found out approximately how many kcals they need a day to maintain weight. There are also some canine websites and books that offer calculations or charts on how many kcals a dog should need based on weight. Of course, just like people these amounts will vary by individual due to metabolism. Rudy usually eats the same amount as Roscoe who is 14 pounds and they both are maintaining their weight nicely.

[Krista]

"The average size dog requires about 30 calories per pound of body weight per day. Interestingly, larger breeds need only 20 calories per pound of weight, while smaller breeds need about 40 calories per pound of body weight. The average size dog requires about 30 calories per pound of body weight per day. Interestingly, larger breeds need only 20 calories per pound of weight, while smaller breeds need about 40 calories per pound of body weight."

Source:
<a href="http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/accounts/canis/c._lupus_familiaris.html" target="_blank">http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/accounts/canis/c._lupus_familiaris.html</a>

Here is a nice chart.

<a href="http://www.frii.com/~phouka/dogs/dog_amount.html#cal_req" target="_blank">http://www.frii.com/~phouka/dogs/dog_amount.html#cal_req</a>

[Mom of Freddie and FG]

Krista,

I had a feeling Innova is rich and higher in calories! I feed Innova, but now I cut it in half and mix it with Nutro Naturals. Innova has dairy in it. Maybe that's it??

I wonder which brands are on the 750 calories per cup? Can you tell me?

Susan

[Krista]

Some of Azmira's formulas have 750+ kcals per cup.

Timberwolf Organics have 630 -680 kcals per cup.

Someone told me Innova adult has 575 kcals per cup, maybe I was thinking of Healthwise before when I said 500-550.

Flint River Ranch (baked chicken formula I think) has 477 kcals per cup.

Avo-derm formulas go as low as 341 kcals per cup depending on formula if I remember correctly.

Solid golds formulas range from 391 -433....you get the idea.

My point was merely that it makes a difference the amount fed, not that higher/lower kcals is any better than the other. Each dog is different and some will do great on small amounts of high calorie food, others might do better on larger amounts of lower calorie foods. As Long as the ingredients are good, I personally don't care how many calories are in the food, but I do try to feed a stable amount of calories to my boys. This means I'd find out how many calories are in the food and start out feeding the amount of food equivalent to about 400 calories rather than starting with the bag reccomendations. If I noticed weight loss/gain after a week or two, I'd adjust accordingly, of course.

[Frzframe]

Mitzi is holding onto that one lb. that she still needs to shed. But I'm not going to reduce her food anymore. Right now she is having an 1/8 in the am and an 1/8 in the pm. Along with air popped popcorn and maybe a baby carrot but not always.

Poor thing is so hungery she licks the bowl just to taste the food thats been there.

Shonda