Do you know what's in your Dog food?

[Krista]

In doing research I have found out some disguting things about most of the readily available dog foods. Do you read your labels? Many common ingredients are not nutritious or easily digested. Just because a breeder or vet suggests it, does not mean it won't have these things in it. Iams and Science Diet brands use them in many of their formulas.

Meat By-products -can come from diseased animals
Animal Digest -essentially cut up strange animal pieces from animals found sick or dead and possibly dried animal poop.
Corn -just a filler, many pups are allergic to it
chemical preservatives -controversial, but why take chances.

To learn more these sites can help:
I complied this list for another site and thought I could post it here too. Most of these have info on/links to natural, high quality dog food. I cannot promise that all have perfect information, but they may be helpful to you if you are hunting for a brand of food or information on what's in dog food. Most of the foods on HUA's approved list are mentioned.

INGREDIENT INFO http://www.api4animals.org/petfood.htm http://www.hua.org/food.html

NATURAL PET HEALTH -site with links and info http://home.earthlink.net/~msalvail/barflink.html
*** This one has LOTS check out the links "Kibble Ingredients" and "Your Pets Food"

INNOVA: http://www.waggintails.com/innova.html http://www.earthwiseanimal.com/top-CDfood.html www.naturapet.com (http://www.naturapet.com)

AVO-DERM http://www.breeders-choice.com/avodiets/index.htm

FLINT RIVER RANCH http://www.cyberark.com/animal/flint_river_ranch_1.htm
http://home1.gte.net/flintriv/ This is the one w/ best trial offer

WYSONG -one on HUA's list http://www.wysong.net/

SOLID GOLD http://www.solidgoldhealth.com

PINNACLE http://www.waggintails.com/pinnacle.html

CALIFORNIA NATURAL http://www.petpeoplelosgatos.com/dogs/dogfood.htm

CANIDAE http://www.canidae.com/canidae.html http://canidae.com/pet-lovers/pets1.html http://www.canidae.com/benefits.html

NATURAL PET FOOD -site selling several brands including Neura products (listed on HUA)
http://www.natural-petfood.com/products.html

DISCOUNT PET SUPPLIES -has some natural foods and info http://discount-petsupplies.com/

CANINE UNIVERSITY -lots of info, this link goes to an article on essential fatty acids
http://www.canineuniversity.com/articles/health/health_07.html

VET VOICE -a little about food including recipe also other health care info
http://www.rspcanz.org.nz/pets/vet%20voice/vet_voice1.htm

THE FOOD SOURCE -has both good (Pet Guard Life Span, Wysong -HUA's list) and bad for sale
http://www.mailorderfoods.com/products/pet.html

BACK TO BASICS -listed on HUA http://www.backtobasicspetfood.com/

TRAINING http://www.ddc.com/petplace/dogtraining/



[This message has been edited by Krista (edited March 07, 2000).]

[georgette]

I remember some of you posting somewhere that the Flint River Ranch food distributor was kind of short on communication.

Just a suggestion - I happened to find another of their nationwide distributors (that I'll try to link here) who I found to be very communicative and helpful.

Incidentally the food just arrived yesterday & it smells so good I feel like eating it myself. My sister DID taste it & she's says it's quite bland which is good - not a bunch of juke flavorings.

The pups seem to love it but then again...

Happy Birthday dear Gabbie...

[georgette]

Duh again. His name is Michael Levine.
http://petfood123.com/

[2DogsLong]

Krista or Amy or someone who has researched foods,

I feed my guys Sensible Choice - Adult food. Could you check out the site and peek at the list of ingredients? Is anything out of line? It's never in any top food picks but I think it's rather new. Everything in it is human-grade.
http://www.naturalblend.com/products.htm

[Owen's Mom]

The food looks fine. It looks similar to Innova. No byproducts or digest, as long as they're doing well on it, I'd stick with it. The only thing that I would change is that I like baked food better than extruded, and since it doesn't say baked anywhere that I saw, I'd guess that it's extruded. I don't think that dogs can process extruded food as well. But, I still think you've made a good choice. (Owen is VERY gassy on extruded food)

~~Amy~~ http://dachsie.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Mark]

Maybe some of our resident food experts can confirm or not, some of the things about dog food I've been given to understand.

Meat as the first product listed is a given, but if it's a "meal" (as in chicken meal) even better. Corn meal is difficult for them to digest and many can have allergic reactions to it. Rice is just a filler, having neither a negative or positive effect. In fact, I've been told (Catahoula board) if an intenstinal illness is suspected in our furry friends that causes vomiting . . . boil some white rice and give it to them - if they vomit there's a "bug" which probably requires medicinal help. If they keep it down, then the food they get daily is the culprit. The thinking is that it, of all things, white rice is easily digestible. And, finally, meat by-products are just ground up animal parts like chicken feet, hoofs, and chicken lips http://dachsie.org/ubb/biggrin.gif with no benefits.

Whadayathink?

>Mark<

[Krista]

Mark,
The thing about biproducts is that they can come from diseased, euthanized or animals found dead. They can also come from cats/dogs and horses if it just says animal biproducts or rendered meat. These things are not very nutritious and may come from nasty sources.

[Owen's Mom]

From what I've read and learned so far, everything you've said is right of the money. Corn is one of the worst things in dog food. Many dogs have allergies to it, and it's really just filler, you know, make them full faster and you don't have to put more meat in the food. Also, increases stool volume. The other problem w/corn is that it's really bad grade corn... Not anything close to what we'd ever think of eating. And yes, byproducts mean any part of the chicken or lamb or fish etc. That could be intestines, feet, beaks, lips http://dachsie.org/ubb/wink.gif etc... "Meal" is dehydrated and powdered meat, but it is actual meat.

You should look at the ingredients on a bag of Science Diet or Purina. It's all very deceiving... They sneak crap (even literally as that's what digest is) into these "high" grade dog foods. Amazing, wish I had thought of marketing dog food in my previous life, I would have been awfully rich!

~~Amy~~

[WOTANSMUTTI]

Around here we could have Woodrat listed as the main ingredient,with eggs as the second,small animal and bird by-poducts next then kibbles as the "filler".The nastier the better! http://dachsie.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[Wienergal]

GAAAAAaaahhhh! Another delicious topic! Ick! Ick!

BUT these "conversations" are so valuable! After Krista posted all this stuff on the OTHER board, I read the ingredients list diligently. I checked out those new Pedigree Denta-bones, for example, and guess what...DIGEST!!!

Somebody please tell me how chicken poop can clean my dogs' teeth!!! http://dachsie.org/ubb/mad.gif What is WITH these manufacturers???

[Owen's Mom]

Come on Pamela...

Don't ya know? Digest is used as "flavoring" MMMMmmmm MMMmmmm Goooood! Ever try to keep a dog away from bird poop? These dog food companies know what dogs like and they add it into the food. It's not about what they need nutritionally, it's about what will get them to snarf it down. http://dachsie.org/ubb/tongue.gif

~~Amy~~

[2DogsLong]

Thanks for checking, Amy. The boys are fine on this food. Shiny coats (that's why I like the black and tans best), slim and full of energy.

When I had my schnauzers, Science Diet was "the best", newspaper hitting was standard, brushing teeth was unheard of... I wonder what we'll think of how we've raised this crew when the next generation comes along.

[doxielover]

2DogsLong (Sue),

Just thought I'd mention that I purchased Sensible Choice 'Natural Blends' today, gave a little to Freddie and he loved it! http://dachsie.org/ubb/biggrin.gif I'm currently using Innova (which is similar), I'll mix the two for a while and see how it goes.

Susan http://dachsie.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Tanya]

I know this is a dated thread, but I'm just finding out about this. I can't believe it! I looked at the list of foods suggested by the HUA site, but none of the stores near me carry any of these foods. I was told Precise is a good dog food...anybody know anything about it. I tried to look at the Innova (sp?) page, but the darn thing takes too long to load on my home computer and I won't be back at work with my super-duper connection until Monday. I know I can order online,but if possible I'd like to buy the food locally and Precise is the only one I can find. Sonya, you live here in GA, what do you use?

[2DogsLong]

Hey, Doxielover. I didn't see your comment until now. How is it going with the Natural Blend food? I'm going to stick with it until there is a problem. The vet is very happy with the weight and health of my boys. The dogs don't <bold>love</bold> it - they free feed throughout the day and usually finish the bowl. They don't lunge for it when I put the bowl down or anything.

Tanya, I can't help you with the foods available near you, eh? Frankie and Oscar eat frozen moose with maple syrup washed down with a beer. But I was wondering if you've read that '... In the Garden of Good and Evil' book. I can't remember the first part of the name - It was one of Oprah's pics. It is set in Savannah. I'm curious to know how true-to-life it is. It's supposed to be a true story.

[Wienergal]

Tanya, do you have an independent pet store nearby? A store that isn't part of one of the big chains? If so, they can probably get one of the super-premium foods for you. Worth a try! I switched my dogs to Innova a few months ago--they absolutely LOVE it, and the results are good: firm stools and shiny coats. I also think my allergic girl, Peaches, is doing a little better this year, even though it's a bad allergy year, probably because of the ingredients in this food.

[Penny's Aunt]

I put some of this stuff under Temperment, because some owners are finding that the problems of some of their dogs seem to be directly related to how much garbage is in their food. Three things mostly affected: aggression, hyperactivity, & allergy problems. [Please note that all MY opinions are within brackets/sue]

This info is from the Feb2000 issue of the Whole Dog Journal:

"If a dog food label says it contains lamb, beef or chicken, then, by law, it really must contain 'the clean flesh from that animal...limited to that part of the striate muscle which is skeletal or that which is found in the tongue, diaphragm, heart or esophagus...

LAMB MEAL, BEEF MEAL, OR CHICKEN MEAL is 'the rendered product' of the above meats. Though the meat has been cooked, dried, & ground, it's still meat, & has not had any 'added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach & rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices'.

MEAT & BONE MEAL is the same product as above, but with the addition of bone. The percentage is not stated.

When you get to BY-PRODUCTS, you've really departed from a product of any quality. These are the things OTHER than the meaty tissue, including, but not limited to, 'lungs, spleen, kidneys, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low temperature fatty tissue, & stomachs & intestines'.

A DIGEST is worst of all: This is a by-product which has been treated with heat & water to create a slurry.

When it comes to meat, in general, the more specific the ingredient description, the better the quality is. Chicken is better than poultry, which would indicate a whole variety of birds.

And, in turn, Chicken Meal is better than Chicken By-Products, which is better than Chicken Digest, which is better than Animal Digest. But from our perspective, anything less than 'meal' is not fit for dogs, especially healthy dogs."

[And, as mentioned below, MEAT can consist of ANY animal, from any source, even very questionable: dogs, cats, horses, sheep, cows, roadkill, euthanized, & livestock still containing antibiotics, steroids & growth stimulators that weren't suitable for human consumption. Can you imagine them actually saying 'roadkill slurry'???]

If you check out a dog food company's website & their ingredient list says "all meats are human grade", then they have to be, by law. Canidae has human-grade meats, I noticed, & organic, too.

GOOD DOG FOODS HAVE THE FOLLOWING:

SUPERIOR SOURCES OF PROTEIN: either whole, fresh meats or single-source meat meal (for example, chicken meal rather than poultry meal).

A WHOLE-MEAT SOURCE AS ONE OF THE FIRST TWO INGREDIENTS: chicken or chicken meal, for instance. A meat source in two of the top three ingredients also helps indicate the food is high in meat.

WHOLE, UNPROCESSED GRAINS, VEGETABLES, & OTHER FOODS: An unprocessed food has a great chance of having its nutrients & enzymes intact.

FOODS SHOULD NOT CONTAIN:

Meat By-Products
Fats or proteins named generically (poultry fat, animal fat, meat meal).
Food Fragments (brewer's rice, corn gluten, etc) This item is the least odious on this list. Most foods contain at least one fragment, as makers economize where it least hurts the food.
Artificial preservatives - including BHT, BHA, or ethoxyquin.
Sweeteners (corn syrup, sucrose, & ammoniated glycyrrhizin, added to attract dogs to unappealing foods.
Propylene glycol- toxic when consumed in large amounts, this is added to some chewy foods to keep them moist.
Artificial colors


[This same article listed their TOP TEN DOG FOOD CHOICES & a PARTIAL LIST OF NOT RECOMMENDED DRY DOG FOODS. Please note that they didn't test every single brand of dog food on the market. I noticed that Solid Gold & Wysong aren't on it, & they are considered very good foods/sue]

BEST IN SHOW: "SOLUTIONS"
CALIFORNIA NATURAL: CHICKEN & RICE
CANIDAE
FLINT RIVER RANCH: DRY WATER
INNOVATIVE VETERINARY DIETS: DUCK & POTATO (available only from vets)
PETGUARD LIFESPAN
WELLNESS SUPER5MIX, HORMONE-FREE LAMB
INNOVA
NATURAL BALANCE
PINNACLE


"The following is an abbreviated list of foods we would not recommend, with a brief note as to the ingredient(s) or factor(s) that precluded our admiration for the food. Ins some cases, a 'Top Pick' shared a weakness with one of these 'Not Recommended' foods. The difference between one appellation & another lay in the quality of the top three ingredients."

[You will notice that certain widely available foods aren't listed here. I guess they assumed that anyone reading this article would already know that Old Roy wasn't a prime contender for a top food, and, as someone pointed out elsewhere, that Old Roy was probably the name of the animal that was IN THE BAG/Sue]

WHOLE DOG JOURNAL'S PARTIAL LIST OF NOT RECOMMENDED DRY DOG FOODS:

ABADY STRESS & MAINTENANCE FORMULA: Poultry by-product meal, meat meal, lard.
APD LAMB MEAL & RICE: Too many food fragments, lamb digest.
BIL-JAC: Chicken by-product in first spot on label.
CORNUCOPIA SUPER LIFE: Corn is first on label, poultry meal is #2.
DIAMOND'S PREMIUM ADULT: Poultry by-product meal is #1.
DR. BALLARD'S GROWTH & PERFORMANCE: Corn gluten meal is #2, animal fat, artificial preservatives.
EAGLES PACK NATURAL FORMULA: Just one strike: animal fat.
EUKANEUBA ADULT: Chicken by-product, chicken digest.
IAMS MAINTENANCE ADULT: Food fragments, animal fat.
NATURAL LIFE ADULT FORMULA: Poultry & meat meal, animal fat.
NATURE'S RECIPE MAINTENANCE LAMB & RICE: Food fragments, animal fat, lamb digest.
NUTRO MAX NATURALLY PRESERVED: Food fragments, poultry fat.
PERFECT HEALTH DIET G&M FORMULA: Replace poultry meal & poultry fat with chicken meal & fat, & we'd like it.
PRECISE FOUNDATION FORMULA: Poultry fat, food fragments.
SCIENCE DIET MAINTENANCE: Animal fat, artificial preservatives, poultry by-product meal, fragments.
SENSIBLE CHOICE ADULT DOG: Fragments, poultry fat.
PEDIGREE PRIME: Fragments, chicken by-product, animal fat, artificial preservatives.

[Whew! You sure have to pay attention, don't you?]

[Penny's Aunt]

If you check out the site at http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wolfepack/foodcht3.html they list a lot of dog food mfgrs & show their ingredient list. It's better than standing around reading the labels at PetsMart. They say they are constantly updating it.

[Tanya]

Oh my gosh! I think I've narrowed my search to two; Innova or Solid Gold. It seems every dog food has one thing listed that you hate to see. I will have to order either one I decide on since our pet stores don't carry anything but Eukanuba and Science Diet.

Wienergal, we have 2 pet stores in Albany, GA and both sell puppies /ubb/smilies/angryfire.gif so I don't shop there. I'll just order online. I wore my puppy mill shirt I ordered to the pet store and not 1 person commented. I wore the other to my meeting in Savannah and all who attended remarked. Unfortunately, these aren't the people who needed educating. They already knew about them and hate puupy mills as much as we do. I did encourage them to buy a shirt though to help rescue a puppy mill dog! I got off the food subject...sorry.
Tanya

[Owen's Mom]

Tanya,
If you feed the Solid Gold, be absolutly sure you also purchase and supplement with their SeaMeal. It has important digestive enzymes /ubb/smilies/bounce.gif that allow the the food to be processed properly. And, If you choose Innova, you should really find a place that will give you a sample of it before you buy a whole bag. It's very rich and some dogs (mine specifically) can't really tolerate it. My vet (holistic) believes that you should be feed raw food (which I've been feeding for a while now) or, his second choice would be Solid Gold. /ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif

Let me know how it goes for you!

~~Amy & Owen /ubb/smilies/facelick.gif~~

[Tanya]

Tell me more about the raw diet. I have 4 dogs and 1 is pretty big so the raw diet sounds expensive. Do you feed bones and all?

Thanks for the Sea Meal tip. I actually have a brochure and catalog. The gentleman I spoke with told me that without the sea meal the food is simething like 75% digestable but with it the food is 92% digestable. I may not be exact with the % but I know I'm close to what he said. I may go with the Solid Gold.

[Owen's Mom]

I love the raw diet! Owen's been on it for about 8 weeks or so, and he's doing great. He's shiner, calmer, there's probably 1/2 the stool volume as before... I love that I know exactly what he's eating, he's completely off grains (except for an occasional doggie biscut). I'm enjoying learning about BARF (bones and raw food), I've just read a book by Kymythy Shultze on species appropriate nutrition and learned a lot. It's a cheap book, keep your eye out for it.

It is more expensive and more time consuming, but I think it's fun... and my theory is that the healthier the food I give him now, the less vet time he'll need, so I'm saving money in the long run. If you're a good shopper and have a great relationship w/a butcher or local meat packer, you can get some great deals on necks, wings, and backs of turkey and chicken. They eat the WHOLE thing. The bones are raw, they don't splinter until they've been cooked. They provide valuable calcium, and the fat and skin is very important because dogs don't use carbo's like we do, they convert grain to sugar, not energy. They burn fat as we would carbos.

Here's a link that you can check out, it's the BARF email list and it's very interesting!! http://www.egroups.com/group/BARF

There is a lot to learn before you start feeding raw, look into it, and consider the benifits and the downfalls.

~~Amy~~

[Wienergal]

WHOA!! Amy, is that right about dogs converting carbs to sugar, not energy??? GEEZ...no wonder it's so hard to get Farfie's weight down! I need to get more meat in his diet! Thanks for the tip! It's funny--I was going to post a message tonight asking how the raw diet was going. Great minds, etc. /ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif

I have only one caution to those of you who are thinking of trying Solid Gold. It contains yucca, an ingredient that is kind of a plant-based steroid--a phytosteroid, like the phytoestrogens in soy. Absolutely nothing wrong with that UNLESS your dog has ANY kind of condition -- such as Addison's disease, Cushing's syndrome, or adrenal or kidney problems -- that could be affected by an increase in his or her body's steroids. I was going to put my dogs on Solid Gold a few years back but couldn't because Peaches had been diagnosed (erroneously, it turns out) with Cushing's syndrome.

Tanya, BUMMER!!! Two independent pet stores and they BOTH sell puppies???? /ubb/smilies/angryfire.gif Not to put too fine a point on it--that sucks!

[Owen's Mom]

Pamela!!
You must read the book by Kymythy Schultz /ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif It will give you a lot of information that will help you decide on whether or not you really want to start a raw diet. She has tons of educated and experienced info /ubb/smilies/eek3.gif

Also, look for Billinghurt's Give Your Dog a Bone... It's basically the BARF Bible.

I'll catch up with you soon!!
~~Amy & Owen /ubb/smilies/facelick.gif~~

[Tanya]

Thanks Amy. I'm gonna look for that book. I never ever in a million years thought you could feed dogs chicken bones...raw or cooked! Sounds interesting. I want to learn more about this BARF?? diet. Even if I feed these dogs Solid Gold right now, maybe I can change over to the raw diet when I get more info. and learn more about it.

[Owen's Mom]

Think about it this way... When wild dogs catch their prey, do they gently debone it before eating? Then cook it up over a flame and mix it up with grain? Nope, they eat it bones and all. Dogs have highly acidic stomachs and they melt the bones down in their tummies in a relativly short amount of time. The high acid level, along with smooth intestines of a carnivore also keep a dog from being poisoned by Salmonella and Ecoli (though it can still happen, especially in dogs w/compomised immune systems, but then they can choke on a raw hide, pig's ear, hoof chip, bloat from eating kibble....)

Here's a link to get you started in your research http://www.drwp.net/needhome.html It's a little extreme, but great basic info with some other good links.

Let me know if you have more questions!
~~Amy!~~

[Penny's Aunt]

Raw bones are fairly soft, in comparison to cooked bones, which are brittle. All those years that you were told not to feed chicken bones REALLY meant COOKED chicken bones.

Somewhere in the BARF info, they said if your dog doesn't chew at all, even raw chicken/bones, to chop the bones into bite-sized pieces. When I read that, I IMMEDIATELY thought of dachsies. I wonder why?

This would be an cheaper diet to fix if the chicken industry hadn't conned everyone into thinking chicken wing "drummettes" were valuable finger food & raised the price accordingly. I have found WHOLE CHICKENS that were cheaper than wings.

[doxunzX3]

I have read almost every post regarding which foods that are considered top quality. What it amounts to is I am going cross eyed. :dizzy: At the moment we are feeding mostly Chicken Soup. My vet had both Chewy and Con on prescription foods but said we can try to ween them off of them. But it is hard to decide which food to use. I guess it will be trial and error. With both of them having different types of health problems it is scary because of their sensitivity. I don't want them to go down hill any faster. Chewy has gained weight although his blood test are still not good. He doesn't' digest protein. My vet has only had one other doxie that had this problem. The owner did all kinds of tests including biopsy's. I don't want to put Chewy through all that and I can't afford it. Plus I have never used him for breeding. (she is a breeder & shows her dogs). I hope to get to talk to her at the specialty in March.
Con hasn't had another bout sense his last trip overnight to the vets where he needed the IV to help him through it. It scares me that they can go downhill in such a short time with flu like symptoms.
Sorry for being so long winded. I know this is another long post. If someone wants to condense it feel free to.

[LUVMYGUNNER]

Chicken food for the canine soul is a pretty good food--it has chelated vitamins "NO" soy, wheat, BHT ,BHA ,ethoxyquin. Those are the things I look for when I buy food/treats for Gunner and Petunia.