Mitzi was supposed to be a mini

[Frzframe]

Mitzi is getting so big the last time the vet weighed her she was already at 10 lbs and she is still growing. As of Jan 2 she was 22 weeks old. I was told her parents were 7 and 8 lbs. There were two female b/t LH at the brokers house and they were from different litters possibly from two different owners altogether. I'm now thinking that she mixed up the paper work on them. I haven't sent in Mitzi's registration papers to the Universal Kennel Club yet. What do you think I should do? Should I just forget about it and send in the papers or what?
Please any input into this situation will be greatly appreciated.
~Shonda
PS I don't think I would have got a dog from her but I didn't know she wasn't owner of the puppies plus we drove close to 2 hours one way before we were informed. <IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm36.gif" border=0>

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Frzframe on January 10, 2001 at 04:55 PM</font>

[Timber]

Mitzi's parents probably had some standard mixed in with them, just very little. You should have your doxie examined by a breeder who breeds for show and knows the breed standard well. Hope this helps!

------------------
Tiffany and Timber The Digger
Proud to have a Royann's Dachshund!

[Krista]

Okay well here's my take on this kind of thing.

She is definitely not a miniature. At 22 weeks the my adult 10.75lb boy weighed 6-7 pounds at the most...I know at 20 weeks he was under 6 pounds.

A rough estimate of a dachsies adult weight is to double their weight at 4 months. So Mitzi will likely be a standard. A Standard dachsie weighs over 16 pounds.

The breeder most likely lied about the parents weight, as unethical breeders have been known to do since it is the minis that the average buyer wants these days. Or like you said, could have mixed the pup up with another. In the US standards and minis can be bred together as well so the parents no matter what weight they were likely had both minis and standards in their ancestory.

BYB and Millers often breed a much smaller male with a larger female to minimize the chances of the dog needing a C-section. Mini females often need c-sections since they are small and the pups may have rather large heads.

Why UKC and not AKC?? I Don't really know much about UKC, but were they perhaps trying to get around the DNA testing required for stud dogs by the AKC?? IF so, that may be evidence that the breeder is not a responsible, reputable one.

Now pups, even from the best breeder can often turn into tweenies rather than true minis. I bought both my boys from the same lines. Rudys parents were 9 and 10.5 pounds. Rudy is full grown and weighs 10.75lbs. Roscoe's parents were 11 and 10 pounds but he weighs 13 pounds at 9 months.

The breeder called this week to see how they are doing. She was surprised to hear how much he weighed, as the rest of his siblings are 8-10 pounds. Of course, it really does not matter since she sold him to me as a pet with a neuter contract. Had she sold him to me as a show or breeding prospect, then I would have had a problem with it.

If I were you, I wouldn't bother registering her. The only reason I am registering Roscoe is that I might like to work with him some day in other AKC sponsored events like agility, earth dog, or obedience. I have not heard of UKC sponsored events like that. If you aren't showing/breeding or doing other trials why register?? Thats just my personal preference though.

[Oscar's Mom]

Oscar was supposed to be a mini too, he weighs 15/16 pounds full grown. When I think back I probably should have known better but I was over come with his cuteness!

[Mandy]

Henry was supposed to be a mini, he is larger than both of his parents were at an average 0f 14 1/2-15 pounds. However, I know his brother is even larger (it is possible that the woman we got him from lied....we had a lot of problems with her...had we only known....but we love Henners).

Jake too was supposed to be a mini...his mother is around 11 pounds and his father is a little over 5 pounds...and Jakey is a whopping 12-12 1/2 pounds (although he looks tiny).

Genetics plays a key role...and as you know, two short people can have a tall child and vice versa....and this can happen in dogs too....

We don't really care how big our guys are....they are our furkids and we love them just as they are....so we thought they would be a little smaller....but who cares? We have them registered with the AKC only because we may try some of their events. We have been told that Jake is of show and breeding quality...well, that's nice, but he's just not into the show thing, although he does like his photo shoots...and as far as breeding goes....we'll leave that to the professionals.

[Frzframe]

I wrote to the breeder and ask about Mitzi's parents and that is how I found out about her mom weighing in at 7 and her pop at 8. I also ask about her being AKC because that is what I know. He said her parents are in both UKC and AKC. Since there was only 2 pups in the litter he didn't want to spend the money for AKC and since UKC is easier he just register them there. I want to send in her registration just in case something happens to Mitzi so I'll have proof that she is mine. (I can send in a photo and make a note of all her markings.)
Don't get me wrong I love Mitzi and wouldn't trade her for anything but I wanted a mini so I wouldn't have to lug around a heavy dog. She is still short but boy howdy is her body looooooong. <IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm16.gif" border=0>
~Shonda

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Frzframe on January 11, 2001 at 09:53 AM</font>

[Owen's Mom]

OK... I'm going to be frank here. As I understand it, you'll NEVER be able to register your dachsie as AKC because both parents are not AKC. You can register her as UKC (United Kennel Club) if you really feel it necessary, but please understand that whoever you bought your pup from was either a miller or a back yard breeder and not a reputible one in any way. They knew that she was not AKC eligible and the only people who use UKC (which is a sham registry) are those who have been suspended from AKC or bought a dog from someone who is suspended from AKC and wants to give the impression that it's dogs have "papers" Here's a link on registries http://nopuppymills.com/akc.html

Now, this doesn't mean that your dog is any less important to you in any way. If you're concerned about having a record if case of something happening, then have her micro chipped and registered in a national data base like Avid.

Hope that helps, and please know that I'm just trying to fill you in on the UKC vs AKC thing and I'm not pointing any fingers.

------------------
~~Amy & Owen~~
22.8 lbs of Black and Tan Standard Muscle!! www.dachshundrescue.org (http://www.dachshundrescue.org)

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Owen's Mom on January 11, 2001 at 12:05 PM</font>

[Frzframe]

Now I'm not sure UKC is a sham - I'd never heard of it but my mother had. In fact she knew right off that is specializes in Rat Terriers. And dogs can be registered in both. Both of Mitzi's parents are reg. in both AKC and UKC.

Now AKC isn't so great either in my opinion. They are getting better with the DNA testing but let me tell you our Emily is AKC and she isn't quality at all. So being in one or the other doesn't really mean a thing unless you are going to show the dogs. Just my thoughts.
~Shonda

[Owen's Mom]

First of all, AKC does not guarantee quality. Virtually any two dogs that have papers and are bred together can produce puppies that are AKC eligible, that doesn't mean they are show quality, that just means they're registered. A quality puppy comes from a reputible breeder who has shown their dogs, had them judged for confirmation, only breeds to improve the breed and not to make money.

And UKC is notorious for being the regisitry of the Millers who have been expelled from the AKC due to illegal breeding practices. Did you read the link I gave you? Here's another link to a board that moves fast and is frequented by several REPUTIBLE breeders, along with a miller or two (the most flagrant posts as USDA"breeder") http://216.34.232.28/club/bboard/fur/index.html I'd post your dilema there and ask about the UKC.. these people will give it to you straight. And UKC is all over the place now, they prey on the uneducated puppy buyers, if you walk into a petshop now a days you'll notice how many of the dogs are UKC registered, because they do come from mills.

Research it as much as you can. There is tons of information on UKC and alternate registries on the web.



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~~Amy & Owen~~
22.8 lbs of Black and Tan Standard Muscle!!
www.dachshundrescue.org

[~Jen~]

UKC is a reputable registry its the UKCI (Universal Kennel Club Inc.) that is not. I would suggest since Mitzi is just your pet you do like Amy said and have her micro-chipped with Avid i have all my dogs done it cost $25 at most vets this will give you a record that she is yours. The fact that she was bought from a broker has nothing to do with her size alot times 2 mini's that are bred will have a large puppy even in show kennels with top lines this happens alot ... after all mini's were bred down from the standards so the genes are still there. What really matters is you love her and she has a good home and you learned about reputable breeders for the future http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

Jen

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by ~Jen~ on January 11, 2001 at 12:35 PM</font>

[Frzframe]

Thanks for the links.
~Shonda

[Owen's Mom]

Jen,
I guess the litmus test would be... Does UKC register -poo dogs? You know, cock-a-poos etc? Let me know. If they don't, then I will have to eat my words and admit, I must have them confused with UKCI... If they do, then I would still feel that they are a sham.

Let me know.

[~Jen~]

Here is the UKC breed list no Poo's on it that i can see but i just glanced.
http://www.ukcdogs.com/breedlist.html

The UCKI, APRI, and the CKC just to name a few will register ANYTHING just about if you tell them its a breed.

Jen

PS here is the main link for the UKC so you can read more about it http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif AKC is my registry of choice but this one is also recognized world wide and has sanctioned (sp) events.
http://www.ukcdogs.com/

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by ~Jen~ on January 11, 2001 at 12:45 PM</font>

[Frzframe]

Okay I was checking Mitzi is Universal Kennel Club International but they do not have any poo's listed on their breeders site. Is that good or bad?
~Shonda
And was est. in '38

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Frzframe on January 11, 2001 at 12:49 PM</font>

[~Jen~]

Does this sound reputable....
This is copied of their dual registraion page

**You can always register litters at the same time you register your breeding stock !!!
Brokers pay FULL price for Universal papers.**
http://www.universalkennel.com/Dual_Registration_Promotion.htm

JMO
Jen

[Mark]

IMO UKC (United Kennel Club) is a very reputable club. We have Top Spin registered with them, have been to their shows, have been involved Catahoula breed standards and have watched countless UKC shows on TV. I don't think "when" the AKC decides that the Catahoula is a real breed that we will even register him there. We don't show or breed so there would be no reason.

Mark

[~Jen~]

I think there is BIG difference in the UKC and the UKCI. HUGE!

[Frzframe]

United has a No conformation privileges on some dogs - what does that mean?
~Shonda

[~Jen~]

No shows is my guess..?

[Frzframe]

It doesn't sound as bad as that - If we wanted to reg. Emily who is AKC with them also it just means we can.
~Shonda

[Owen's Mom]

You're right Jen, I did have them confused with UKCI. Pretty sleezy of UKCI to use shadow the UKC's accronyms like that. I've also heard terrible things about CKC(not the Canadian Kennel Club, but the continental kennel club) BLECH!!

[Frzframe]

Okay good news I just found out that both of Mitzi's folks are reg. with AKC. At www.akc.org (http://www.akc.org) I found a way to check to see if they were there. And sure enough it gave me their reg. #'s and everything. I checked to see if her daddy had sired any litter (or actually reg any pups) but the owner hasn't. I found out that the dad was born on 9/19/98 and the female was born on 4/30/96. Not to bad huh? Is it good news for me and Mitzi? Not that it really matters I am going to get her spayed (is that a word?) But at least I know for sure now that the man I bought her from wasn't lying to me about her parentage being reg. AKC. http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif
~Shonda

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Frzframe on January 11, 2001 at 03:13 PM</font>

[pkmiddler]

The Avid chip is a great idea all of my dogs are chipped and the info sent to the AKC for the Home again program.My studs are all DNA I hope to do my girls soon too.I have registered only 1 puppy so what is up with this guy saying it's the money did he give you the puppy? If not he now has the money to register the 2 pups with AKC.I would ask him to do it and get out there and get a Obedience title or Field CH. agility is fun too.Our little dogs can do soooo much and they have FUN doing it just as we do.TUDOX

[dox_no3]

Hi everyone,

This is all very interesting. When we got Bugsy from our breeder, she said she would register him and send the papers to us. (Which she did.) She also gave us a copy of his pedigree. I'm not sure where she registered him but seeing as we weren't going to show him (signed neuter contract) we didn't really worry about it.

She waited a while til we picked a name and then sent in his registration. She also did this with our last one that we got from her.

Not that it matters to us but why would she want to register a dog she no longer has?

N.B. This is in Canada and I'm positive she wasn't a pm or bb.

------------------
Julie & Bugsy
/===//V..V

[Krista]

many times good breeders will not release the registration papers until they are sure the dog is being/was already neutered when they sell pets under neuter contracts. It is a good thing to do.

That said, seedy breeders will often say this when a dog really is not going to be registered to sell the pup. They make the buyer think the pup has papers when they don't.

Just one more reason to really do your research before you buy a puppy.

[pkmiddler]

I ask people who buy my puppies to at least put my kennel name on their pups papers as the first part of the name.Some breeders I know register every puppy they have with the name they choose.In German Shepherds most breeders name A thru Z all of the pups have the same letter so you know who dad and mom are if you know the letter.My puppies I try to name something to do with dad and mom if not some theme.But your papers and your contract should go home with every puppy,and a DCA member MUST send a pedigree and feeding notes.Buying from a DCA member helps secure a good sale if there are problems the DCA board will see to it being GOOD.Tudox

[Susan'sFreddie98]

Freddie is not a true Mini either, he weighs 15-16 lbs. My Vet could tell right away, as could a Groomer (who has dachsies and Shows them). I was a bit dissapointed, but I wouldn't trade him for anything!http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif I learned too, that 2 Mini's can produce a 'Tweenie'.
Freddie is AKC reg. and although it does not guarantee health, it is interesting to have a 'family tree'. His Grandfather and Great-Grandparents are CH's. as well as a few other distant relatives. There are a few well-known kennel names listed.
I didn't get Freddie from a reputable Breeder, cause at the time I didn't know what I know now!<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm36.gif" border=0> Looking back, I was NOT educated enough as to what questions to ask! DUH!http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/frown.gif
I can't even remember where Freddie's Breeder got his Dam! Now I WISH I knew! I won't phone her anymore, because the last time I did she didn't seem interested.http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/mad.gif
I was hurt too. Oh well, live and learn! Although I do feel that Freddie is pretty healthy, he is definately Pet Quality only. I remember thinking that AKC reg. was a BIG deal, now it's not! I was actually dissapointed (and MAD as hell) in what I learned about the AKC from that 'Dateline' Puppymills segment a while back.<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm22.gif" border=0>

Susan

[Krista]

Something I really like about my breeder is that she checks up on them.

Roscoe turned 9 months old this week, and SHE called ME -Long distance to see how he was doing, if he had been neutered yet, how much he weighed, were he and Rudy getting along, how his obedience skills were coming along, what was I feeding them...etc.

And when I told her I was giving them Fish Body Oil caps and how much it improved their skin/coats she was impressed and said she would look into adding that into her regimen.

I called her about 3 mos ago to ask her a question, so we talked at that time too. She was having health problems when we bought Rudy, but she still checked in about 6 mos after we took him home and we had called her several times in the month we got him.

With a good breeder, you get communication, even after the pup goes home with you.

[Frzframe]

PK -
What is DCA? Just wondering cause I'm new at this. I've emailed AKC and they are finding info on the breeder of Mitzi for me isn't that nice of them. I wish I knew to do that before oh well. <IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm1.gif" border=0>
~Shonda

[Krista]

Dachshund Club of America http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[Susan'sFreddie98]

Krista,

You've got a GOOD breeder, that's the way it's supposed to be - communication EVEN after you've taken THEIR dog.
When I got Freddie in July 1998, I suggested to her that I'd like to keep in touch (SHE should have been the one to suggest). She said that would be great. Of course she had my phone # and address. Well, when Freddie turned 6 months, I mailed her a pic with a note. NEVER got a response!http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/frown.gif Then, just about 6 months ago, I phoned her to ask a few questions. She barely remembered me!http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/frown.gif So that's the end of that nonsense!

Although I was impressed with a few things about her when I picked out Freddie, she could care less if I neutered Freddie. So she got an F mark on that one.http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/frown.gif But everything else checked out fine. I don't feel that she's a typical BYB, but she clearly needs to improve! Lesson learned!

<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm25.gif" border=0>

Susan

[~Jen~]

I agree a good breeder should always be on hand to answer questions and give friendly advice the breeders i got my doggies from with the exception of Rosies is always available to answer questions. A good breeder will encourage spay/neuter of pet quality puppies and above all will always be honest http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif
I dont think a GOOD breeder has to show in conformation but they should have a goal to their breeding which will improve the dachshund world in some way, and above all they should stand behind their puppies even if it means taking them back if a family can no longer keep them. Thats MY idea of a good breeder http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

Jen

[pkmiddler]

Sorry I didn't get on line yesterday to get a answer on the DCA ? it is The Dachshund Club of America. I was buzy whelping puppies Guy-Guy is the Dad and DeeNee is Mom.We had 3 girls and 1 boy,lost 1 girl.So 1 red male 1 black & tan female 1 red female.Buzy day she started at 5:30 am ( I was up till 2:30) and had the first pup at 7:00am, then 1 at 8:30am and 1 at 9:00am then the wait.At 2:00 pm we went to the vet's(he owns one of my dogs a field CH.named Jaejer) got a pitt shot and 1 more in a 1/2 hour at 3:00pm. So I will be very buzy cuddling,feeding and playing with them until some of them go to their NEW homes.Oh yes, I get Christmas cards pictures,calls and visits from all of my Grandchildren as we call our puppies that are sold .They all know who we are when they see us no matter how long it's been since we have seen them.I LOVE hearing what my grandchildren are up to.Tudox