I have a dilemma with my new puppies!

[DoxieDilemma]

I am new to DBB. I have a question that I have been trying to answer for a couple of weeks. I have consulted my vet, and he has been researching and asking other vets, but we still don't have any answers. Here is the dilemma:
I have a black & tan long-haired female dachshund with four new puppies. I bred her to a black and tan (blue & tan) double dappled male. I researched the double dapple very carefully before breeding my female. The research I found stated that a douple dapple dachshund would produce ONLY dappled pups when bred to a solid colored dachshund. It also stated that a double dappled dachshund would not pass on any of the "lethal" genes associated with the double dapple breed.
My black and tan female had five pups, but we lost one within 24 hours. Out of the five pups, three are black and tan including the one we lost. There are two dappled pups. One of the dappled pups is black and tan or blue and tan dappled, and the other pup is colored similarly, but she has several white areas on her. The areas are a stripe on her head, small areas on her feet and legs, and several bands of white around her neck. My understanding is that this type of marking on a dappled dachshund indicated a double dappled dachshund.
I have taken the pups to the vet and he is just as confused as I am. I have been researching this on the Internet and haven't found any information which is helpful. The vet has also research it and asked other vets, and they all say they assumed all the pups would be dappled.
Also, the pup that I lost was born with its eyes completely open! It was alive and acted fine, but it never tried to nurse. We tried to feed it ourselves, but it passed away about 18 hours after it was born. I have tried to find information about this on the Internet and can't find anything about puppies being born with their eyes open. My vet also has never heard of this before. Has anyone ever heard of this?
All of the remaining pups are fine and healthy. They have their eyes open now and seem to be able to hear and see without any problems. I am really concerned about these pups and don't understand what happened.
My dog is AKC registered and the male is an AKC registered double dapple.
Any ideas or information would be very helpful. I am at a loss and can't seem to find any answers. :dizzy:

[Me&DappledDuo]

It's late- so my answer will be short- but there are several possibilities here. It's possible that the stud you used isn't really a double dapple- but a dappled piebald (a big no-no for the reasons you're seeing- confusion). Is he really a blue? Most responsible breeders stay away from dilute colors- as they often come with coat and skin defects. :( If he is a piebald- he could pass on this gene, that when combined with a female with piebalding in her genetics- could produce another dapple piebald (yuck!). That would be the dog with the white on her. It's also possible that he is a double dapple that carries for piebalding.

It's also possible that your female is a dapple- but doesn't show many. She could have only a tiny dapple in the armpit and still be genetically a dapple. Then, they would produce only dapples and double dapples. The black and tan pups that appear to be solid would really be dapples without much dappling showing.

But honestly? It sounds like it's probably the first case. I assume you know your female's history- and can look at her pedigree and locate any piebalds. Double dapples should ONLY be bred by extremely experienced breeders because of the confusing situations they can bring about. But like I've said- it sounds to me like you bred your female to a dappled piebald (NOT a good stud) and ended up with a dappled piebald puppy (PLEASE make sure she's spayed).

I'm sorry about the loss of the puppy. That must be very hard- but a sad fact of breeding. We have two wonderful breeders on the board- hopefully one can help you further.

Best of luck- and remember- AKC registrations are only as good as the knowledge (and honesty) of the people that submit them. Sounds like the stud you picked is incorrectly registered. I'm quite certain that no responsible breeder would stud out a double dapple to someone who's so new to breeding. :(

Welcome to DBB- and btw- we love pictures. ;)

[soph & li mom]

where did you hear the double dapple cannot pass on the bad genes??

[DoxieDilemma]

I read several articles about double dapples, and each one I found said that a double dapple will never pass on the "lethal genes" for blindness or deafness if it is bred to a solid dog. The genes are only the result of a dapple bred to another dapple, according to the articles.

Here are a couple of the articles I read:

http://www.dachshund.org/article_double_dapple.html
Look in section right above "How Can I Help?"


http://users.crpud.net/auslagen/
Look under "Lethal Genes" section

http://www.liltexasdoxies.com/main/newpages/doubledapple.html

I have bred my female two times before this batch of pups. She was bred to a single dapple male and produced one dapple pup and several black and tans in each litter. All have been healthy and both dapples are doing great. I own the first dapple pup and my niece owns the second dapple pup.

This litter has really confused me, but it is a different stud than I used with the previous two litters. I knew there was a risk of problems with the pups if I bred a dapple to a dapple, but I read numerous articles which stated a double dapple would not pass on the lethal genes when bred to a solid colored dog.

[Kim H.]

and with dappling being a dominant allele (the dog will show it if (s)he has it), I understand that your solid dog should be what we could call dd and a double dapple should be DD - your dog can ONLY give a (d) and the stud can only give a (D) so all pups should be Dd (heterozygous) and should show dappling to various degrees but none should be a DD or double dapple (which is incidentally not a "breed" just a genetic variant). Chrissie is right, though, dappling can be to only a tiny degree (one spot under the armpit) in which case you could not tell unless you had a fully reputable pedigree... you cannot trust that that is what has been given to the AKC by any of the owners. Unless you know your dog's ancestry fully, it is possible this is what happened.

I have a little pattern mix (in my avatar or links in my signature); I met her parents who are a solid (appearing!) red and what is probably a dapple piebald. However, the mom had pups shortly after with a solid B&T and produced a B&T dapple - thus, the mom had to be dappled (faded). Cass might be a dapple piebald or a DD piebald or just a DD.

I would not personally recommend breeding a DD to anything... and would be cautious about breeding your girl to any dapples in the future (if you intend to breed again). One of our breeders will hopefully stop in and correct me if I am wrong here. :) I am sorry about your lost pup; your others may be just fine, without sight or hearing problems, even if they are DDs. Cassie has no problems at all.

Another note on piebalds, they will usually look symmetrical - similar spotting patterns on R and L. DDs tend to have random spotting. If it's a mix, who knows.

Would love to see pictures of your pups. :) For educational reasons, and because we love puppies!!!!

[Me&DappledDuo]

There are no known "lethal genes" to pass on. When a puppy inherits a merle (M) gene from each parent, it has a strong chance for hearing and/or eye problems. It's simply the fact that a dog IS a double dapple that puts it at risk, nothing that's been "passed on" from either parent. You can get MM puppies from a dapple (Mm) to dapple (Mm) breeding, a dapple (Mm) to DD (MM) breeding, or a DD(MM) to DD (MM) breeding (all MM pups).

There are several reasons double dapple breeding should be left to knowledgeable breeders- ones who know their lines front and backwards. One- Dogs that appear to be solid may, in fact, be dappled. Which, when bred to a DD, would produce only dapples and DDs. Then there's the question of what ELSE does the DD carry for (pattern/color breeders, the ones who have any color or pattern you can imagine, are NOT very well organized)... if both parent dogs carry for piebalding (as I suspect is the case here), then mixed pattern dogs are created. And finally... there are a few responsible breeders who use DDs in their programs. But they would NEVER stud one out to someone with the slight bit of experience that you have. So the quality of the stud is immediately a worry. If we don't know what patterns he's carrying- how could we know what genetic defects he's carrying for??

As Kim mentioned, Piebalding appears fairly symmetrical. Paws, tail, a blaze on the head, around the neck- all common among piebalds. Double dapples are completely random. They do, in some cases, look like a piebald- but can be almost purely white, or just have white patches amongst the dappling.

Do you have a picture of the stud? We should be able to surmise whether he's a DD or a dappled piebald with one.

But I can tell you- if he IS a DD, then all the puppies are dappled, whether you can see it or not. I think it's much more likely that the stud you used was mislabeled- and is in fact, a dappled piebald.

[Kim H.]

She's a good example of the asymmetry.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/rxkah/P101piecombo3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/rxkah/cass-2pics.jpg

A newer pic. A lot of that white is gone now (back, paws, tail) but chest and stomach are still pure white... which kind of illustrates how minor dappling could fade on a red and make it appear solid as an adult.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/rxkah/DSC00038.jpg

Chrissie's right to use MM instead of DD, incidentally, I just used DD cause it helps me keep it straight with the term Double Dapple. :)

[Sausage Mom]

Here is a picture of Pixel...he is a piebald - and you can see the symmetrical pattern.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/p4455e68fcc852c3d8824332182192922/f4d827ca.jpg

[luvmydoxie]

Thanks for the information guys! I was wondering how that worked. :) I have been trying to research it and haven't gotten too many "in layman's terms" answers.