Coat Color Question

[Mutzie's Mom]

Poor little Sheppie comes from a long line of mixing. As a result, he is sort of a mixture of coats. His momma was a smoothie (red) and his daddy was a long hair (b/t). Now, Sheppie is red with lots of black overlay. He almost appears more black than red. Despite the cross coat no no's, he's quite adorable. Anyway, I got his 3 generation pedigree from AKC. His great-great maternal grandparents were BOTH mini wires (Wheaten and red). The female was labeled "champion." How in the world could they produce a red mini smooth? That would be Sheppie's great grandmother. I am trying to research the genetics, but I'm not having any luck in this area. Sheppie has this grayish black grisly tail and his fur is so thick, coarse, and black on his back, it's almost impossible to brush and make it look smooth, like the hair on his sides. I swear you can see the wire in him! I know that it's probably not genetically possible to see wire traits in a longhair. What a Heinz 57 Sheppie is! He is so beautiful though. It just adds to his quirky character. Thank God he wasn't bred! Can you imagine what he could have produced? <img border="0" alt="[Oh my gosh!]" title="" src="graemlins/eek3.gif" />

Sherry & Sheppie

[K.Middler]

Yes 2 wires can produce smooths if it is in the bloodlines I have a friend who imported dogs from Germany and ended up with a smooth in the litter when she bred them.But anyone who would breed a Long into that well that is a sad thing for our breed.Anyhow your dog is a smooth correct?? so yes he could show his wire background and the overlay you are talking about is called wild boar in smooths and wires so I guess you should learn to pluk the wire coat he has to get the dead hairs out.As far as his pedigree send me a e-mail with the Ch.grandparent's name or attach the whole pedigree I can help find out who is in his background for you.

[Mutzie's Mom]

Sheppie's fur had gotten so bad and long that if you brushed it in the opposite direction, it would stick right up and stay that way. It was so stiff. I am convinced that he was the missing link between longs, smooths and wires. I've seen pictures of smooth wild boar coats and I swear that's what Sheppie is. His coat is just so many colors: red, black, tan, and gray. We decided to trim him up for the summer. We got some clippers and trimmed him up. We really tackled his back which is the spot of the problem fur. He is so smooth, silky and shiny now. It looks like he uses Pantene! :) I can't keep my hands off him. It feels like rabbit fur. He is really getting irritated with me, too. If he sees me coming toward him, he runs under the bed and sticks his nose out, just to watch me. :D

Sherry

[Cindi]

OK, I'm confused. What variety IS Sheppie? Longhair bred to smooth can produce smooth or longhair IF the smooth carries longhair. Smooth cannot carry wirehair. Smooth coat can be influenced by the long gene or the wire gene in that the coarseness or softness can be increases, the density can be increased BUT you would not confuse a smooth as being either a long or wire. Kay, did you get a copy of the pedigree and is something else happening genetically here?

[Mutzie's Mom]

Cindi,
Shepard is a long hair. His father is a long hair; his mother a smooth. His mother's great grandmother was a wire: Ch. Val-Jean's Sandstone. She was a Wheaten and the father was a red mini wire. The rest of his pedigree does NOT state the coat type, only the color. Little Sheppie is the product of people who don't know a thing about breeding! <img border="0" alt="[Uh-Oh!]" title="" src="graemlins/uh-oh.gif" /> He is a bundle of joy, nonetheless. His coat was just so coarse and stiff. I'd never seen a long hair like him. He's mostly black with red scattered here and there. His coat is much shorter than Mutzie's, my mini long hair. I am sure it's because of his "diverse" background. I would be happy to e-mail anyone pictures...I have tons! I just don't have a website to post them on.

Sherry

[mardoniche]

Sherry,
Would you be kind enough to email me some photos of Shepard, I am really intrigued to see
his coat, many thanks Dawn and dachsies.
mardoniche@aol.com :D

[Cindi]

Yes please email me a pic or two. Sometimes the name of the dog can tell you the variety, too. ML for mini long, MS for mini smooth, MW for mini wire. The smooths from the wire breedings is very common :) and not a travesty or incorrect occurrence. The adage is a smooth is a smooth is a smooth unless it's a smooth carrying long. NOW the problem is that somehow the dog that came down from that also had to carry longhair in order to produce a longhair so SOMEWHERE there is a longhair back there :) and that is what surprises me because I KNOW Pat Slagal wouldn't have done that! Would love to see the entire pedigree!!!!

Many red longhairs can have a 'dunnish' undercoat of varying colors and that sounds like what you are describing, especially in the tail.
Once they are neutered their coats can tend to get thicker which might also be part of you problem. What you might want to consider using instead of the clippers, although I bet it made him turn out lovely and it is much faster and easier, is a pumice stone. Use it as a brush and see how much of that undercoat type stuff it will pull out. Use it gently at first until you get the feel of it. Use it with the grain only. Just a suggestion :)