We have a problem

[Oscar's Mom]

Last June Oscar bit me on my finger, broke the skin but he released immediately. I was taking away a paper towel he had stolen. We worked him and he got much better about being possessive with toys and bones. We went to obedience classes when he was a year old and did puppy kindergarden when he was 4 months. He's 2 now.
Well, tonight I went to Wal-Mart and of course I had to buy him something. So he got a new fleecy toy. He was sitting with my husband on the sofa with the toy next to him, everything was normal. My husband noticed the toy was ripped open (of course, like always we just pull the stuffing out and give it back). Well Oscar totally freaked out and bit him, again broke the skin but released immediately.
This is his 2nd bite now. I don't know what to do. My husband loves Oscar but says one more bite and we have a decision to make. I'm so upset. I don't understand why he would bite us.
We will adopting a dachsie, soon I hope, we've been waiting for months now. I'm afraid there will be fights.
Any advice please?

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Oscar's Mom on June 15, 2001 at 07:15 PM</font>

[Krista]

This may not be of much help, but it is all I have to offer.


Maybe it is time to seek out the help of an animal behaviorist, or a VERY experienced dog trainer (ask for references). To me it sounds like you really want to nip this in the bud and I think these types of professionals would be the best tool to help you do that.

[Mark]

You failed to mention how the bite was reacted to by your husband. Aggressive behavior or biting hoomans MUST be met with a confrontation that lets the pupper know who the alpha of the house is. For that kind of aggression, a *chin-bop* and firm "NO" is recommended by many. The chin-bop should be be done with a closed fist in an upward motion on the lower jaw (chin) - hitting the dog with the fleshy circle formed by the forefinger hard enough to "clack" his teeth together, but not hard enough to do physical damage to the dog.

A behaviorist is a great suggestion . . . there are many nuances and deviations in correcting aggressive behavior.
Mark

[LisaH]

Do you still work with him regarding the toy possessiveness? It sounds like he needs constant follow-up with this. And I go along with everyone else in suggesting the help of a behaviorist. Biting is a difficult behavior for the owners to figure out by themselves.

Good luck!
Lisa and Annie

[SandyLynn]

Some of this may have to do with Oscar's age. Dogs usually go through their adolescence at around 18 months to 2 years, and they may start challenging you to see what they can get away with. It's important to be firm and consistent in correcting the bad behavior and reinforcing the good.

I agree with Mark about the chin bop - it's one of the easiest and safest ways to correct the dog for biting in the circumstances you've described. You need to do it immediately after the bite. You might also follow up by isolating Oscar away from your company for twenty minutes or so. You can also teach/practice the "give" command as much as possible, using lots of praise and treats.

Please don't think there is something "wrong"
with Oscar - this is NOT abnormal behavior for a young male dachsie. However, it does need to be corrected. A good trainer or behaviorist, preferably experienced with dachsies and terriers, should be able to help you.

As for adding another dachsie to your household, I wouldn't worry about this. They may have a few squabbles, but Oscar's behavior doesn't necessarily mean he'll be aggressive to another dog. A female would be the safest, although two neutered males can also get along well.


<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by SandyLynn on June 17, 2001 at 09:44 AM</font>

[Oscar's Mom]

We were taught to flip him over on his back, look him in the eye and hold him down until he calms down. So that’s my husband did. Then we put him in his crate for about 10 minutes.
Lately Oscar seems to have slacked off on all his manners. I don’t know why, he had been doing so well. Maybe he is just being a teenager! I’m going start working with him every day again to re-enforce what he already knows. I’m also going to check into some other obedience classes.

[dutchman]

The trainer I took Tanner to for our obedience classes is a nationally noted animal behaviorist and she would cringe to hear the general approach you have been taught to use with Oscar. While her general training approach is positive reinforcement she believes aggressive behavior must be meet with immediate action. Her preferred method to correct such behavior is the chin bop. She considers time outs a pop training fad that does no good at all. She believes the dogs can not connect the action with the timeout and have no idea why they are being confined. The time outs give the humans time to calm down but do nothing to teach the animal what they did wrong. She also does not believe the alpha roll and face stare should be used. She has witnessed too many people improperly use these techniques and it not properly preformed the dog will think they have won and hold a higher position in the pack than you do. Even something as simple as blinking or a turn to look at something else happening in the area could signal to the dog that it has won.

All this said I personally don't believe there is only one approach tat will work 100% of the time. I like getting different ideas from different trainers if one approach doesn't work don't be afraid to try something else. Just don't keep changing approaches too often or the dog will get confused and never figure out what you are trying to teach it.

A good trainer can achieve remarkable behavior changes but long term change depends on the dogs owners being able to follow up and reinforce the techniques they need to apply. In some cases people may not like the techniques they learn and shy away from using them. I sometimes wonder why those people went to an animal behaviorist in the first place. The trainer I went to can put a charging large GSD that was about to attack another dog into a sit stay in a matter of seconds. Her assistants can do the same thing but the dogs owners even after several weeks remained unable to exercise any control over the dog. When you watch the owner it was obvious they used almost no restraint on the dogs gentle leader and used almost no force when administering a chin bop. Their NO was hardly louder than a normal speaking voice.

If you really fear getting bit administering a chin bop you could try a jet of water right between the eyes. The fist that is used to administer the chin bop is meant not to leave any dangling appendages to make prime bitting targets plus if properly administered the hand is near their face for such a short time it presents a very short term moving target.

Dogs will react differently to the chin bop. I can only recall one time when Frank did something that required a chin bop and he was in shock when it hit him. I had to reassure him that he was ok and he could approach me. If my memory is correct he was getting too excited about another dog and about to jump up on it's shoulder. It was a large dog who was interpreting Frank's behavior as agdression rather than play. I had to do something to get Frank to settle down to keep him from becoming the target of a defensive attack from the other dog. Frank had on his pincher collar and a rather short walking leash but I still could not keep him under control till that chin bop hit him. Tanner doesn't like the chin bop and knows it is a correction but when we first started using it to correct aggression at our front gate it would sometimes take about three bops before he would stop the offending behavior. The behavior I was attempting to stop was rearing up on his hind legs snarling bearing teeth along with agressive barking when someone would come to the gate. I feared if anyone were to put a hand through the gate he would have leaped up and bit them. At one time he would get aggressive towards most people or dogs we meet on walks. Between chin bops and a gentle leader he is over that for the most part. He has even been allowed to go on some walks w/o the gentle leader and has done fine.

Good luck,


Tom and the boys (Frank and Tanner)

[Freddie and Funny Girl]

I agree with everyone here.

There could also be an underlying health condition that is causing this behavior. This is NOT too uncommon. An example...one of our Member's Dachsie had behavior problems, and come to find out it was related to a liver shunt.

You may consider having Oscar checked out, including a full blood panel.

Good luck, I can imagine how difficult this is.

~Susan~

[Mrs.F]

My Maggie is the dog with the liver shunt. I agree that you certainly want to rule out any possibility of illness, but it's unlikely that aggressiveness would be Oscar's ONLY symptom. Maggie had other physical things going on, we just didn't realize her aggressive behavior was part of it all.

The chin bop or rolling her onto her back are not appropriate options with Maggie. (To tell you the truth I cringe at the thought of putting my hands near the jaws of any dog that just bit me.)
Putting Maggie in a sit-stay works best for us. She knows that we're unhappy with her by our stern voices. She has to submit by obeying the command. It seems to remind her that the humans are the boss. She is always subdued and eager to make up after we release her. Of course that meant lots of training so we could be sure she would obey our command and regular practice of the sit - stay under pleasant circumstances with lots of praise and treats.
Good luck. It's a hard problem. We have no young children at home and we feel that having Maggie around is worth the risk of being bitten. However, even that doesn't keep us from getting our feelings hurt when it happens.