I am so stupid

[minicooper]

Last week my 5 year old Mini was diagnosed with calcification in 2
discs after an xray. She was showing signs of pain, not going up stairs or jumping on lounge. The vet put her on Prednisolone and said to let her rest. After 4 days he said she was fine, and that we had caught it early, she had no injury. He said she didn't need to stay in the crate, but was not to do stairs or any jumping. I should have known better because my 11 year old had a ruptured disc 18 months ago and he recovered after 4 weeks crate rest, but Mini was showing no
signs of paralysis, so I believed the vet.
We picked up our new 10 week old dachsie on Saturday, and Mini was following him everywhere, but we thought, as the vet had said she had no injury, that it was fine.
Well the inevitable has happened, she has gone down in the back legs.
I immediately put her back in the crate and rang the vet. He told me to increase the dose of steroids, and let him know how she goes that afternoon. He said if she is no better she would be referred to a
specialist.
I contacted our puppy's breeder (she is very helpful, and reputable with 30 years experience in the breed) for her opinion. Her first comment when I told her where the vet wanted to refer me was 'Don't go there' She said that hospital had a bad reputation for offering only surgery (with a very poor success rate) or euthanasia. Neither of those options appeal to me at all! (we have the financial capacity to pay for the surgery, so that is not the reason) She said that in her opinion, she would go to a chiropractor with experience with these problems, and gave me the name of one that she had used for one of her dogs. I have an appointment to see him on Friday. I rang the
vet to give him an update and said I was going to try the Chiropractor, and boy, did I get a reaction! He was not open to the
idea of any alternative treatment at all, he laughed when I suggested putting her on Ester C, and said that only surgery would fix it.
I know that surgery can have some good results, but I feel that I would like to hear what this chiropractor has to say.
I was wondering if anyone would know of any websites with information about alternatives to surgery, so I could discuss it with the vet? I really don't want to alienate the vet, as he has been very good in the past with other ailments, but I feel he is not very experienced with disc disease.
I am sorry this message is so long, but I am so angry with myself as I feel my stupidity has contributed to my girl suffering as she is now.
Also, as my girl is now weak in the back end she is having trouble peeing. I have tried holding her up, as she can't squat, but she still doesn't do it unless she is really busting. Does anywhere know where I would press on her to 'agravate' the bladder, and make her pee?

[Mark]

IMO . . .

Right now Mini has or is *going down*!

Get to a clinic or hospital with real experience in IDD in Dachsies. Find one now and go . . . please.

Keep us posted and you have all our best wishes, prayers and RAYZ.

[dutchman]

I would be very leary of letting a Chiropractor, spend much time with a dachshund that is experiencing IVDD. I would really try to locate a good neurologist and seconday to that alternative a good orthapedist. Unless something has happened due to the increased activity allowed too soon (I would have questioned the resume activity advice but don't start playing the what if game). I am not opposed to many types of alternative treatments at the right time and I know the local vet school incorporates seveal alternatives including accupuncture but there are times it's best to get an experts opions. With back problems there can be complications that make a delay in surgery (if needed or advisable) have a major adverse impact on the potential outcome of surgery. Is there another hospital in your area that has experience with dachshund back problems? You should feel free to express your concers to your vet but I would be much more concerned about not getting an expert's views on Mini's case. No I won't claim to be an expert but I learned a lot talking to the doctors when I lost Aggie to complications following her surgery. Would I hesitate to consider surgery again NO not if the experts told me there was a good chance of recovery and not having surgery was dangerous. In general most of the back cases the teaching hospital sees are feferal from other vets who have already thried conservative treatments or cases where the onset of sypthoms is rapid.

Did you'r vet see Mni today and if so did they do a deep pain response test on her? A deep pain response in Aggie's case was compled by using a pair of forceps to appry firm pressure to her toes. If there is no deep pain response then by all means do not delay getting the opion of a surgon. Loss of deep pain response generally indicated extreme pressure is being placed on the spine and if not corrected quickly perminate damage is liable to take place. Since Mini's sympthoms were relatively slow onset she may still be a good candiate for conservative treatment. I doubt a Chiropractor will even be open to suggesting Mini not have surgery plus I would feel betther is she didn't have to wait so long to see an expert. If you vet did no request you bring Mini back in when she went down so that he could take another look at her I would call another vet and get a secondary exam. Back cases need close minotoring when there is a major change.

I don't mean to scare you but having lost a little girl who I sometimes think (playng the what if game bad thing) might have survived if I gotten her to the surgon 12 hours earlier I don't want to see anone have the same heartache I felt. As far as use of ester-c I'm not convienced of it's assistance but I am also not opposed to it's use as a preventative. I think to expect it to cure an existing disk problem is a false and potentially dangerous hope. It's dangerous for several reasons right now. First if you delay other treatment thinking it will cure the current problem that s bad and second high does of C can impact how other drus function and the possibility may exist of you preventing the steroids from working as well as it might otherwise do. I hope ou know you can't jst stop giving the steroids once they have been started. Mini will have to be weaned off of them. In some back cases time is a very critical issue my neurologist said slow onset sympthoms have a higher cure rate than rapid onset cases. Rapid onset sympthoms generally indicare a more sever disk rupture which has a high chance of causing further dmanage with delay.

In your case I would consider calling a couple of more vets in your area and ask them who they refer back cases to. If you end up going to the hosptal your vet recommended feel free to aks them hard questions like their suscess rate for dachshund back surgeries. The teaching hospital here averages 3-5 dachsund backs per week. Going inot Aggie's surgery they gave me a 70% chance of full recovery. At the same time they warned off all the other possible outcomes including not making it off the table to reduction of pain but lasting parlysis and the possibility of forever having to manipulate her badder to empty it. A good surgon shuld go over all of this with you. When looking for a good surgon neaby is convient but a road trip and having to leave them some place where you won't be able to visit till a weekend should be considered if there is somone with an outstanding reputation an hour or two away.

Excuse my rambling at a time you are already under a lot of stress. MY boys and I will be sending rays and keeping us in our thoughts.

Tom and the boys (Frank, Tanner and Dexter)

[minicooper]

Thanks for the replies.

I rang the specialist hospital the vet recommended before I did anything else. I was told their success rate is not good..........50% survival and then only 20% will ever walk again. With those odds, forget it!

I have rung our previous vet (we moved house and changed to a closer vet) who had treated Cooper when he has rapid onset symptoms, to ask her opinion. She is going to ring me back. She has had previous experience with dachsie backs, and works a couple of days a week at the spinal unit at one of the Universities in Sydney. She was marvellous when Cooper went down, so I will trust her judgement.

I don't have Mini on Ester C yet, because I didn't want to risk upsetting her system at the moment.

I am so confused at the moment, I have no idea what I will do.

[dutchman]

It sounds like your old vet is a good resource. How far are you from Sidney? If you can get a referral to the teaching hospital there that sounds like the best way to get some very good advice. I would have to agree with you the odds at that local hospital do not sound very good. If they screen dogs and only do surgery on those dogs that are good candiates then they should have a higher suscess rate. I think Mark and I both are trying to stress right now the advice of an expert is what yo need as soon as possible.

Out thoughts and rays will be with you what ever path ou take.

Tom and the boys

[dana]

i will be praying for you and mini and your family. i hope she gets better, please keep us posted.
-dana and dex

[dana]

also, please don't feel bad or be mad at yourself. i am sure you are the best dachsie mommy there is!!

[minicooper]

Tom, I understand and appreciate all your and Mark's comments.

All I know at the moment I will definitely NOT be going to the first hospital recommended. I have heard from a couple of different people that their attitude is if you have the money, we do the surgery, and if you don't we euthanize. This hospital is about 2 hours drive from us, but the University the other vet works at would be about the same distance.

I am still waiting for the other vet to ring me.

I will let you know what we are doing.

Thanks again.

[minicooper]

We have decided to give her another 24 hours in the crate with the medication, and then if there is no improvement we will be seeing a specialist. The old vet we had is going to ring our vet, (it seems they are well acquainted) and they will share information.

They are both dead against the chiro and massage, so I will not go ahead with that, for now anyway.

I am still not keen on the idea of the surgery, but at least we have some time. Tom, her pain sensation in her feet is very strong. The vet on the phone told me to pinch between her toes, and when I did she pulled her foot out of my hand. That is a good sign, and also she will wag her tail a little bit when we talk to her.

I am really hoping that she improves, but if she doesn't, I will be guided by what the specialist advises.

Any spare rays anyone could send for her would be very much appreciated.
:rayz: :rayz: :rayz:

[Mark]

Good . . . this sounds much better. :)

RAYZ coming *down under* :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz:

[dutchman]

Rays on their way. It sounds like she may still be a good candate for continued steroids and crate rest. Toe reaction and tail wags all sound like positives at this point. I know you will have a difficult time resting till Mini is better but I know I'm feeling better knowing that you are proceeding on a path that I feel is more likely to bring a happy outcome. I know from having read you posting in the past you are trying to do what is best for Mini.

Give the whole garage crew Mini, Cooper, and Rover an extra hug for me.

Tom and the boys (Frank, Tanner and Dexter)

[dutchman]

Hi Pauline,

I just want to let you know we are still sending rays. I hope all is going well. I know with the steroids and crate rest it some times seems like ther is no progress or it is very slow. I hope Cooper is watching over Rover while Mini is confined.

Tom and the boys

[MARTHA]

Hi Pauline - You and Mini are in our thoughts and prayers. We also have every finger, toe, and paw available crossed. Please keep us updated.

Martha and the Girls

[DAL]

Hi Pauline,

It looks like Mini is pulling through.

We are all rooting for her here and pray for her full recovery.

Don, Betty and the boys.

[minicooper]

Mini was at the vet this morning for a checkup, and we got some encouraging news!

She can stand on her back legs now, with only slight wobbling. He tested her reflexes and they are pretty good, the left leg is a little weak, and her deep pain sensation is good.

He feels that as long as there are no setbacks, and she has total crate rest, she should recover!!

I'm sure the :rayz: :rayz: from everyone here have helped her.

Thanks for all the advice and opinions!

[Mark]

That's great news, Pauline! :)

We're sending more very strong Michigan Dachsie healing RAYZ just to be sure. :flower:

:rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz:

[crock]

Pauline,
Sending lots of rays your way. The news for Mini sure sounds encouraging. You will be remember in our prayers.
Char and the kids- Patty, Laila & Darby. :rayz: :rayz: :rayz:

[minicooper]

Mini is getting better every day!

She is now able to walk, and is only a little wobbly. It is really difficult to stop her from taking off! She is still in the crate, and only goes outside to potty. I keep hold of her so she can't walk more than a couple of steps, to sniff and find the right spot. She can squat on her own now (to pee) without me having to hold her up. She is being weaned off the medication and is in no pain.

The biggest problem we have now is that she doesn't WANT to stay in the crate. She barks almost constantly if we leave the room, even to go to the bathroom! She has toys and a kong, and is not interested in them! It is very hard to convince her that she must stay there for her own good.

Cooper and Rover are getting on really well, even snuggling up together. I think Mini does not have good thoughts about Rover, so we will have to work on that once she recovers!

Please keep any spare Rays coming our way, I am sure they have helped.

[Mark]

We can always spare RAYZ for a DBB pupper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz:

[DAL]

We are all delighted here in Wales that mini is recovering.
All the signs look good. When our Otto was at that stage I used to take him on the regular dog walks, but carry him in a special carrier (like a baby carrier but designed for dogs - it was an american made off the peg piece of equipment). Round about the middle of the walk I used to put him down for a minute or two, gradually increasing the amount of time on a daily basis.

Eventually when he managed to walk he used to work his two back legs together like a hop and it took another 12 months until he was walking normally. Now thank God he is fully recovered and walking quite normally as I am sure Mini will now. But it does take time. The main thing, she is showing an interest to join the others by barking from her crate. Taking her on walks will build up her confidence, although she isn`t actually walking.

[dutchman]

It's great to here th good report. Like MArik said rays are always available for a achsie in need. Yest as I recall they do complain about the confinement but that is also a good sign that they are getting better. The hard part is not giving in to them.

Tom and the boys (Frank, Tanner and Dexter)