Biting Issue with Children (long)

[4theluvofdaisy]

Hi

I need information on stopping Nick from biting. First a little background. We took Nick from a family that had him since he was a puppy. When he was about a year old the family got a Jack Russell Terrier and apparently thought more of it than Nick. Well let's just say Nick developed an attitude about it. He started to bite. This family had one small child that was about 8. We knew this before we took Nick but thought that certainly when he was away from the other dog and in our home where there was no competition things would be better. Nick is now two. We have had Nick for about a month and he has bitten everyone in the household but me. (husband and 4 kids) Not major bites but bites nonetheless. In Nick's eyes he has had a "reason" so to speak for every bite. Last week he was chewing a rawhide bone on my bed as I was lying there and one of my children (6 yrs old) was also lying there. The 6 yr old moved suddenly and it startled Nick and so he bit him....in the eye. Spent the afternoon at the eye dr and the night in the ER contemplating plastic surgery. I did spank Nick for biting him and Nick hasn't had any episodes since then. We have consulted a trainer and she suggested giving Nick away to someone without children. She doesn't think he can be "broken" from his habit. I have read in a couple of books that it's possible but not likely. I have also read in a couple of places that it is possible but it's hard work. I am very dedicated and have always had a dachsie since I was a small child. My children want to keep Nick and I would love to keep him if the biting can stop. I can't risk an eye being lost or worse. So I thought I would bring the question here and I hope that someone can tell me thoughts on if it is possible to stop Nick from biting. He is not a mean dog at all....just a natural dachshund. None of mine have ever been biters before as they were all too lazy!:)

I am very emotional about all of this as the reason we have Nick is that we lost Daisy (our dachsie of 5 years) in an accident 11/30/02. There hasn't been a day that I haven't missed her terribly. I felt the urge to "replace" her immediately as I couldn't bare being without her.

What do you think???
Is there any hope?

Thanks for your time and any responses!!

Angie

[dutchman]

Here is the web site Dr. Gail Clark the k-9 Shrink http://www.k9shrink.com/ She was he owner and chief trainer were Frank and Tanner have taken basic obedience classes. She sold that business when Frank was almost done with his classes. I would suggest you drop her an e-mail. I don't know how much advice she will be able to give via e-mail but she may know someone in your area that specializes in difficult cases.

Following a link from Dr. Clarks web site I found the following page which if you scroll down to the video section mentiones a viedo that might be of interest to you. Dog Aggression: Biting - Ian Dunbar http://www.apdt.com/bvlist.htm

Good luck,

Tom

[Mark]

Hi Angie,

IMO Nick does not understand that he is the Omega to the other *pack* members (your family).

Are you doing anything that establishes this to him? If not, I suggest you do so. There are many ways to achieve this . . . have the different family members take turns giving food or treats and have them require an act of obedience to earn it. No trick=no treat. When walking thru doors the human should always go first. After all, it's the hooman who is alpha over the pupper. You are prolly are seen as the alpha by Nick, since you have had no problems with him like you describe.

The site and materials that Tom recommended are very good. And I agree that an expert of this kind can fine tune the remedy.

Good luck and please do keep us posted on your progress and discoveries in to the problem.

[TessieMom]

I have worked with several "biters." Most are fear biters: they are afraid that they will be hurt or lose their belongings. But, others are doing it to control the pack. Mark is absolutely right You have to make sure that he knows his place in the pack, and that goes for everything from food, to walking on a leash, to sleeping arrangements, to greeting people and dogs. If you search the archives, you will find a long post that I made on this last summer(?). A good obedience class will help establish the proper relationship and I strongly recommend that you try this before you give up. Rena and the 4 girls and 2 foster guys

[dutchman]

Hi Angie,

I've decided to make a couple of more comments after sleeping on this issue. I have two biters one a shy agressive biter and the other a panic mode fear biter who I firmly believe was in an abusive first home. Since I live alone and don't have close friends with young children I don't have all the same worries that you do. It's really difficult to tell how far Nick can progress or just how long or fast that progression might be. There are so many variables that it's not possible for most of us to even venture a guess on a long term outcome. With younger children and already one face bite that required medical attention my fear level would be high and if Nick picked up on that increased fear he too may be feeling additional fear because he knows you who he sees as the pack alpha is fearfull but he doesn't know why.

You face a difficult decision and one that no one else can make for you. If you do decide it's not safe for your family to keep Nick I would urge you to try and locate a dachshund rescue group in your area who can take him, put him into a foster home till a home w/o children and that is able to work with him on his problems can be found. That same rescue group might be able to help locate a dog that would have an easier time adjusting to your family. If you tell the rescue people exactly wat you have told us I doubt they would hold surrendering Nick against you if you ask for assistance in trying to locate a new companion dog for the family. I would try to get at least one more expert's views on the issue. Someone who idealy could come to your home and observer Nick with the family. If they agree with the other trainer then I would face the difficult decison of trying to decide if I can risk another potentially serious bite or if the short term heartache of having to give up Nick and trying to locate another family member would be better for everyone. The longer you have Nick the more difficult it may become to give him up.

One more idea to add some slight degree of saftey would be to put Nick in a gentle leader and keep him on a leash while the children are in the same room with him. Many people mistake the gentle leader for a muzzle which it is not. A dog can still bite with the gentle leader on. The think I like about teh gentle reader is that if a dog makes a sudden lunge at someone and hits the end of the leash before they reach their target then their head is turned back towards the person holding the leash. With a conventional collar and leash your notice a dog can generally pull against it and gain a few extra inches in their attack. If they try to strain like that againt the gentle leader it will just turn their head that much more. The gentle leader is a training device and should not be a 24 hour a day collar. Many dogs also take on a completely different personality whent he gentle leader goes on. Be aware if Nck is like the majority of other dogs he will hate the gentle leader especially at first and will do every thing he can to try and get out of it. Tanner my shy agressive boy who generally hates to be touched by anyone he doesn't know well will go up to people and rub his face against their legs or even hands in an attempt to get them to help him out of the gentle leader. That same boy would tense up and give those same people a glassy eye stare if they put their hand close to hi w.o the gentle leader on. Once he ges into the stare mode I know I have any where for a second or to to perhaps 15 seconds to get the person to back off or to physically get between them to avoid a potential bite.

Dexter is my fear panic mode biter. I am still getting to know him and hope just buildign a deeper trust will be the long term fix to his problems. I haven't located the proper children yet to try testing him and see how he does with children. When he bites he bites had not a soft nip so I'm using extra caution with him. The first time he meets a child of any age I plan on having him in the gentle leader with my hand firmly under his chin where the chin strap/leash attachemennt point is located. That way I'll have somplete controll over his head. He is very social with adults anti social with most other dogs. Just Wednesday night I had a new first with him. I dug out an old circular ring rawhide chew and the boys were being good taking turns working on it. At one point when it was Dexter's turn and he was settling down holding it more than hard chewing on it. I got brave and put my hand down near it. At first Tanner tensed up and started to show some teeth. I did one loud nod NO then in a calm low voice I taked to him. After a couple more attempts with moderate doby tensing on Tanners part I was finally able to put my hand on the ring and take it away from him. I kept it for perhaps 15 seconds talking to him then gave it back to him. A few minutes later I was able to take it away from him again. After I gave it back to him the second time he also got good verbal praise and an extra rub behind the ear.

Like I said I have the benefit of being single and not having to worry about anyone besides myself getting bit when we are home. That makes my working with these dogs who are potential biters mentaly easier than it would be in your case with a family with children.

I see I've started to wander and really haven't done much to help you with your problem but sometimes just hearing you are not unique or that you are not a horrible person if you choose to give up an animal can be a help.

Best wishes,

Tom and the boys (Frank, Tanner and Dexter)

[mamaw]

Almost 10 yrs ago when i got Cinnamon she was a year old (Snoopy at that time was about 4mos old). She had been teased and abused by children in her former home and hated children and would bite. Noreal serious bites tho. A couple years ago I kept grandchildren after school and during the summer and with a lot of love and the kids (age 6 and 11) giving her snacks she came to love them. Guess the heart is through the stomach sometimes. I say sometimes as my son (who was 30 at the time) came by about a week after I brought Cinnamon home. She was barking a lot at the new stranger so I assured her he was ok and she hushed up. My son sat on the couch and and started to go woof woof which caused another barking frenzy. This time I gave her a little smack on the butt whith very stern No's. ( should have smacked my son instead) to this day when he comes by she will sneak and try to bite him.

[Mel n Gooey]

If you decide to keep him, and work through his issues... First thing... he's NEVER around the kids unless you're right there and he's completely under your control. If you don't have a crate, you might want to get one (or an expen). Get him a sturdy flat collar and a 6ft lead, and loop it around your waist so he has to stay with you (this will be a pain at first, but you'll both get used to it quickly). Don't let the kids bother him, but you can have them feed him, if he's not food aggressive. Also, feed him in his crate, and any chewies/bones he gets he gets in there. Don't bother him while he's in the crate. It's HIS place. If he snaps at someone again, don't correct him, as he will control himself while you are around, but when you're not there to correct, the behavior will still be there. Also, he may start to associate the person he snapped at with being corrected, which will only make his problem worse. Instead make sure only good things happen when he's around those people, and that he's never made to feel uncomfortable when around them. It would definitely be a good idea to seek help from a professional trainer and/or behaviorist though. You can do a search on this site: APDT trainer search (http://apdt.com/cgi/trainer-search?m=0) , and they also have info on choosing a trainer.