A question about Jessie...

[Jude18]

Hi all,

As you know we recently (7/20/08) brought sweet Jessie into our home and she has bonded very well with the rest of our pack.

She has recently started exhibiting some unusual behavior and I'd appreciate your feedback. After two weeks here she has suddenly started to try and hide from us. We have now blocked off the couch as she would crawl under it and we needed to lift it up to get her out (she couldn't figure out how to get out on her own). Since we blocked it off, she started to go to the "big bed" and stay by herself. Naturally, we are continually working to integrate her with the rest of our pack. She seems to be very comfortable with all of them but needs our encouragement to join in and be a part of the group.

The strangest part is that she is suddenly very skittish and seemingly afraid of ME! She'll sit with Linda and stare at me and growl??? But, when I approach her she gives me kisses, her tail is wagging like crazy, and she is quite happy. We have thought that maybe I remind her of someone who has harmed her in the past? I have no idea. Jessie will give me kisses, sleep/cuddle with me but if I'm not sitting next to her she stares and growls at me. Odd.

Has anyone ever experienced anything similar? Any of your thoughts or experiences will be very appreciated.

Jessie is a doll. We are just trying to understand her and help her through this transition.

Thanks!!

[catstamm]

Isn't Jessie a mill dog?
That is not really strange behavior at all....
What I would do is leave her alone...let her do her thing, don't encourage or push her to be social with people or dogs... If she is growling while with someone else..they need to put her down and stand up. (ignore her)
Maybe things are just too overwhelming for her and she is not use to being social with people or dogs.
Let her learn to trust on her own time...
When she begins trusting she will come to you....

[LUVMYGUNNER]

Petunia's momma we think was a mill dog, that was found walking the country road and most days Petunia is fine with everything, but occasionnally she acts strange also. There has been a couple of times when she acts like she is scarred of me and won't come to me, then vice versa she does the same to the husband. I usually leave her alone then and after a while I just pick her up, and love on her and tell her how much we love her. Then there are days when she scares easily from noises. I just let her do her thing.

[Jude18]

Cat,

Thanks for your input.

Jessie is a product of a BYB. Linda and I fully anticipated that she would have issues, just like our Charlie who is a mill dog. My question was really more geared towards why she's behaving this way after several weeks of living with us. I do understand the necessity for patience with dogs who come from these backgrounds. Believe me, we afford her (as we did Charlie) all the space in the world to adapt to their new surroundings.

It is just unusual that she was fine for two weeks and then seemed to "freak out". She was very affecionate with me, and still is as long as she is sitting beside me. When she sits with Linda she will stare at me and growl. When I go to her I receive the opposite reaction: wagging tail, kisses, jumping in my lap, etc. Linda & I are stymied by her behavior.

Jessie is a lovely girl. I'm just wondering "why" she seems to be so upset, afraid and skittish when I am not directly beside her.

[LUVMYGUNNER]

Petunia has her days, when she goes to her kennel or to one of the beds in the bedroom--she is pretty social when we do walkies though. Walks up to everyone to say HI. Mabe if you could just spend some time alone with her-walk her around the block or take her shopping to Petsmart.
Here are rays for her:rayz::rayz::rayz:

[Jude18]

Funny that you said that, Irma. I said to Linda that I'd like to spend some personal, alone time with Jessie. I was thinking that it might be beneficial in that she'd realize how much I love her and she would not need to compete for my attention with the rest of the tribe. It's a funny situation here. We have 4 doxies, a rottie and 2 cats. Maybe Jess is just feeling stress from having to jockey for position in the group. I'd be the first to admit that Charlie is my baby. He is the largest of our doxies, but is also the neediest. He gravitates to me and I can understand how this could be threatening to the new-comer. Hmm... maybe I just answered my own question????

[catstamm]

Cat,

Thanks for your input.

Jessie is a product of a BYB. Linda and I fully anticipated that she would have issues, just like our Charlie who is a mill dog. My question was really more geared towards why she's behaving this way after several weeks of living with us. I do understand the necessity for patience with dogs who come from these backgrounds. Believe me, we afford her (as we did Charlie) all the space in the world to adapt to their new surroundings.

It is just unusual that she was fine for two weeks and then seemed to "freak out". She was very affecionate with me, and still is as long as she is sitting beside me. When she sits with Linda she will stare at me and growl. When I go to her I receive the opposite reaction: wagging tail, kisses, jumping in my lap, etc. Linda & I are stymied by her behavior.

Jessie is a lovely girl. I'm just wondering "why" she seems to be so upset, afraid and skittish when I am not directly beside her.


It's not really usual.. I know others will have their opinions that differ but I am a firm believer that it takes 2 to 3 weeks for a dogs to show it's true colors.
Carlee was fine and happy the first week or so she came to my home and then one day just started hiding under the computer and growling.
She would run for cover when she saw anyone new and my kids.
We let her be...let her observe from her spot, that this was a safe place and people were good.
I asked everyone to pretend she didn't exist and if she would come to you continue to ignore her and let her smell you....
It was hard to do because you want to hug and kiss them and let them know everything is OK.....
Well she got better with time and we stuck to it
It took about 6 months of work, constant work.... now Carlee is our meet and greet dog...loves everyone and everything... When she feels a little overwhelmed she goes to her crate.

[Jude18]

You are right, Cat.

We have not pushed Jessie in anyway. We know that she has to adapt in her own time. We were just were surprised that she got along so well initially and then backslided and seemed to have problems fitting in.

I totally agree that the dog must be allotted time to adapt to their new environment. What was interesting was Jessie's reaction to her people, not to her companion dogs.

We watch her and work with her to ensure that she'll be happy here. She will be cared for forever - we love her dearly.

[catstamm]

The other thing to keep in mind is to rule out any medical reasons.
Has she seen the vet and had blood work?
That way you know you are working with a clean healthy slate.....
Time heals all...and I'm sure time is all she needs :0210:
You might also want to invest in the DVD Calming Signals.... it will be the best 24 bucks you ever spend :)

[LUVMYGUNNER]

The person i got Petunia from her hubby does vetting for DRNA told me is to give her some special time just for herself and we try to do that. Remember the pack thing-so she could feel a little left out, you have a big family. Every dog needs their own time--some are more needy than others. Just like kids--my son always needed more attention than my daughter.
You guys are great parents so don't worry--ask Bren also she's a smart woman having done rescue for many years. i have known her for a few years when she was still in California.

[BeauBuddy]

This may be out in left field here, but maybe her vision isn't that great. Maybe when you are on the other side of the room, you are a big dark blurry thing and she recognizes you when you come close.

Dapples aren't the only ones with eye problems. I'm guessing that the breeder did not have her breeding dogs' eyes checked before breeding them.

[Ruthi]

This may be out in left field here, but maybe her vision isn't that great. Maybe when you are on the other side of the room, you are a big dark blurry thing and she recognizes you when you come close.

Dapples aren't the only ones with eye problems. I'm guessing that the breeder did not have her breeding dogs' eyes checked before breeding them.

That was what I was going to say, it sounds to me like she has a problem seeing you clearly. Maybe you could go to different parts of the room and see if she is consistently growling at you or if she she sees you better in some areas and doesn't growl.:hearts::hearts:

[Jude18]

Your responses are very interesting. Linda also thought that Jessie perhaps has a vision problem. This does make a lot of sense. She'll sit on the loveseat with Linda & stare & growl at me. When she sits with me on the couch she is very affectionate & loving. Maybe, from several feet away, I'm just a frightening blur to her. Jessie's behavior makes so much sense in this context. She is a beautiful and sweet girl. A bit of a "fraidy cat", but we are well accustomed to mill/BYB behavior having lived and dealt with Charlie's issues. Thanks to all of you for your ideas and thoughts. :thanx:

[catstamm]

Your responses are very interesting. Linda also thought that Jessie perhaps has a vision problem. This does make a lot of sense. She'll sit on the loveseat with Linda & stare & growl at me. When she sits with me on the couch she is very affectionate & loving. Maybe, from several feet away, I'm just a frightening blur to her. Jessie's behavior makes so much sense in this context. She is a beautiful and sweet girl. A bit of a "fraidy cat", but we are well accustomed to mill/BYB behavior having lived and dealt with Charlie's issues. Thanks to all of you for your ideas and thoughts. :thanx:

Keep in mind if the growling is while she is on someones lap, may be guarding behavior, and is unacceptable, as well as it can escalate and become dangerous.
When she growls at you while on Linda's lap, linda should put her down, stand up and walk away. That way she will begin to realize she doesn't get affection with undesirable behavior ;)

[Jude18]

Point well taken, Cat. We will not allow any of our dogs to exhibit agressive behavior without correcting them. With Jess, it just came out of the blue following nearly three weeks of peaceful co-mingling.

Jessie has come to me several times today. Cuddling, showing me her tummy and just being all around friendly. She has also maintained her affection towards Linda and the rest of our pack.

I believe it will all work out well!

[catstamm]

Point well taken, Cat. We will not allow any of our dogs to exhibit agressive behavior without correcting them. With Jess, it just came out of the blue following nearly three weeks of peaceful co-mingling.

Jessie has come to me several times today. Cuddling, showing me her tummy and just being all around friendly. She has also maintained her affection towards Linda and the rest of our pack.

I believe it will all work out well!

I do tooo :hugs: All good things take time, right?
BTW we get NO pics of your baby girl :(

[SirOliversMom]

It sure sounds like you are covering all the bases! Eyesight, guarding, and then there's plain old, "I'm new here and forgot I really like you for a minute.."

After 3 years, Tammy still forgets with Darren. She won't growl, but she'll cower and run for cover. Mill dogs tend to bond really strongly with one person. If you want that person to be you, I agree with a lot of one on one time. Even one on one couch time works.

You're doing such a great thing and such a great job!!! She's a lucky girl, and pretty soon she'll understand it.

[Jude18]

Thank you all for your kind thoughts and words.

It is true that mill/BYB dogs are very different than your average dog. Charlie, a mill baby, clung to me from day one and continues to do so. It's not that he doesn't love Linda - it's obvious that he does - but he will consistently stay by my side when we are both present.

Jessie, our BYB sweet girl, sticks with Linda. This is very much okay with me. She also is quite friendly and affectionate with me but gravitates to Linda. Her growling at me when I sat away from her was just kind of strange, especially since she showers me with love as soon as I come near her.

Rounding out the doxie pack there are Tammy & Lil. Sisters who we adopted when their older "parents" could no longer care for them. These two dolls are obviously democrats! They pretty much share their love and affection evenly between us. If I had to decide which of them was closer to us individually, I'd say Linda: Lil, me: Tammy. Interestingly the physically larger doxies seem to attach to me more, while the smaller kids appear to bond better with Linda. Coincidence? Who knows? And honestly, we don't care. They're all, happy, healthy & most of all, they are HERE!

Finally, we have our rottie Tasha who is truly bi-partisan. Scratch her behind the ears and she is yours forever! She is an equal opportunity dog.

Bless all of you for your kindness. :hug2:

[Girrl's mom]

Maybe you could wear some strong cologne consistently, always the same one, strong enough that she could smell you at a distance and know that it is you. If she has bad eyesight, other senses will become stronger I've heard.

[Doxiegal]

Again I apologize for my lateness in this post. My PC died and I have not been able to get on here. Judy as I have explained to you in an e-mail this behavior is not unusual. I have Jessie's brother Sunny who displays the exact same behavior. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that I was told when the caretaker of the BYB would come to feed or clean (not often) she would take a stick and bang the cages to quiet the 40 dogs in the shed where they all lived. So what the dogs learned from day one was to mistrust your initial approach since they anticipated fear and angry energy from the person approaching. You did not see this during the "honeymoon" stages in the beginning but once she got comfortable she fell back into her routine and or habits. Sunny is geting better and will not hide at approach but grows tense as a sort of automatic response that was no doubt imprinted on him from birth. This will take time and like Cat said you want to just ignore or give no value to the behavior and let her just observe that the others don't do this and that nothing happens but good things when you approach. But... if she growls put her down and dissagree with this behavior as this may be a seperate guarding or possessive behavior which is very unwanted. I think in my experience fearful behavior imprinted from birth takes the longest to overcome. It's just love, consistency and a boat load of patience which I know you both have. She will be fine some day and so will Sunny. : ) Heinz (fellow BYB rescue) is also really fearful and we have so far decided he will stay in his foster home where he feels safe. These dogs are a lot of work but the pay off is so worth it when you see them transform into happy, balanced dogs. :Sun2:

[Jude18]

Thanks Bren, for both your e-mail on the topic as well as your comments here. This is an ongoing issue and Linda and I both realize that it's all about her history and time will make all of the difference. Jessie just needs to learn to trust that she is in a safe place and she will not be harmed here.

There are days when she behaves "normally" and days, like yesterday, where she reverts to her preconditioned ways. Yesterday we were watching movies and I was sitting on the couch with Charlie, while Linda sat on the loveseat with Tammy & Lily which is basically the way it always was prior to Jessie's arrival. Jessie came in to join us and sat with Linda and the girls and proceeded to stare at me and bark. We ignored her & she soon stopped. At one point we had her sit with Charlie and I and she calmed down as I continually petted her. She's been through a traumatic experience and we'll afford her all the time she needs to adapt.

It's just funny. Later when we went to bed Jessie immediately came to me with her tail wagging like crazy and gave me kisses and curled up in my arms to go to sleep. As you said, mill & BYB dogs require patience and understanding but the payoff is well worth it for all concerned. :grouphug: