New Pictures of the White Girl

[Dachshundrsq]

http://romandachs.com/1wheresmymom03312003.JPG :crying: Where's My Mom!!!!
http://romandachs.com/1whitegirl03312003.JPG
I am gaining weight, looking CUTE and getting pudgy!:angel: I'm Just a Little Angel!:angel:

[blazeman]

She is beautiful! Is there any color on her?

THanks for sharing!!

[Owen's Mom]

I don't really understand how you end up with a White Puppy. Is she a piebald who didn't get any spotting? Is this just a fluke? I'd guess she's strictly pet quality, right? Cute as can be though.

[Dachshundrsq]

She is still solid white. Except for her pink nose, feet pads etc. 2 more weeks may tell a completely different story on her color. I am just waiting to see and watching her GROW.

[Frzframe]

darling - I can't wait to see her with her eyes open.

~Shonda

[carpet gator]

Do you know what her eye color is yet? Could they be red, like an albino? If not, blue would be my first guess. Bright clear blue eyes that look like they could see eternity.

Does this little angel have a name?
Angel almost fits her.:angel:

[onebigmickeyfan]

I am looking forward to seeing her grow. Please keep sharing pictures with us they are so appreciated. She is going to be a beautiful adult. She is a mini wire is that correct?

Just love those wires.:angel: :devil:

Lori, Missy and the Case Man

[Mack]

Cute pup. It will be interesting to see what the future holds for this girl.

[Cheryl]

Ive never tried my hand at breeding (both girls are spayed) so Im wondering if shell gain her *spots* later, like dalmations do?

She is just adorable!! :flower:

[Dachshundrsq]

White dachshunds existed many years ago, then were outlawed due to blindness and deafness cropping up in them. I have my own theory on that which was then pretty well proven when I read in a book by E. Fitch Daglish, in which it discusses that by breeding dapple to dapple and increasing the white factor in the dog that eventually you could get a white dachshund. It was this thinking that I am sure caused problems in the white dachshund due to lack of knowledge in genetics. Dr. Nixon believes the key to the white dachshund canbe found in the Spotting gene...ie: piebald. There are 3 different stages of spotting, not including no spotting. There is Si, Sp and Sw. Sw is the extreme white piebald. Dr. Nixon believe that when you bred an extreme white piebald to an extreme white piebald, you could end up with the White Dachshund. Dr. Nixon bought the first piebald that someone openly admitted they had crop up in a litter. (many breeders and judges have mentioned that "in their day, a dog like that went in a bucket") This tells me that it isn't so much as the gene didn't exist as it is that breeders wouldn't DARE admit they had one crop up in a litter. Dr. Nixon is a breeder/judge of dachshunds as well as a genetists, so the piebald gene intrigued him. He has spent 30 years breeding them. It is a matter of timing and numbers before two dachshunds meet up and produce a white dachshund when all the plus and minus modifiers meet up to make all the genes supress all color in the dog. Is it by chance? Every breeding is by chance, there is absolutely no way to determine every outcome of every breeding. many recessive genes exists making it impossible. In the spotting gene, only the more dominant gene will express it's self. When you see the spotting pattern, you know that another either equally dominant gene exists (it has to to produce spotting) or a more recessive spotting gene exists. If it is a more recessive gene than what you see, you will never know what that gene is unless you "test" for it. When a parent passes on a gene, it can pass on an obvious gene or it can pass on a less obvious gene. If one parent passes on a less obvious gene and the other passes on a more obvious gene, the obvious, more dominat gene will be what you SEE, the less obvious more recessive gene will be hidden. It is only through breeding that you can find out what the less obvious gene is and still the parent has the option of tossing the more obvious gene into the puppy. It is really a number of probability and chance. To have a pure white dachshund, both parents have to give the puppy the extreme white piebald gene plus all the right modifiers to modify the color genes as to not have color at all, then the ticking gene cannot exist either. When this actually happens, this dog is the 100% pure recessive dog that will only produce dogs like itself in it's off spring. The other parent will contribute 50% of the genes to the offspring, but with every puppy in the litter you will KNOW it carries for the 100% recessive genes. You also know that the dog's parent both carried for the recessive trait as well. If you bred pure white to pure white, the resulting litter should be pure white.
I am curious as to why this puppy would be of "Pet" quality only? Because it may end up being totally white?? If so what is the grounds for this thinking? Can I not take a solid white dog in the ring? While I realize that many judges may disqualify her, the ONLY disqualifying FAULT in dachshunds is knuckling over. Several years ago, many piebald dachshunds were kicked out of the ring due to color/pattern, many lesser quality dogs won over the dogs that were piebald, this doesn't make it right.
The eyes......Albino does not exists in dogs, so they would not be pink. Blue?? this color only exists in Dapples, neither parent is a dapple. I expect her eyes to be a medium to dark brown to almost black. I expect her nose to fill in to black. Will se get spots? Only time will tell. She could start growing some spots in her coat and she could get ticking. She could end up with a few spots to several larger spots of color. She could end up being a wholly white dog with very little ticking. Who knows

[Owen's Mom]

So, what I'm getting from your post and lesson in genetics is that you have been trying for a white pup, and that yes... they come from piebald parents. The reason I assumed she would be pet quality is because I have friends who breed boxers and all whites are sold on strict spay and neuter contracts and are not allowed in the ring. I made the assumption that dachshunds were also not desired in white and wouldn't be in the ring. Simply stated, I made a biased assumption that she would be pet quality as I tend to jump to that conclusion when people work so hard to breed for color... next thing you know you see "Rare" tacked on to it and some inflated price for white puppies, people breeding just to make a buck etc. I'm not saying you're doing this, it's just my knee jerk reaction to seeing new colors.

[Dachshundrsq]

I do not read ANYWHERE in my post where I said I was breeding for a White Dachshund. Am I breeding for a pattern, Yes, I LOVE the piebald pattern. I had no idea if the dam of the litter even carried piebald because she was 1 generation bred away from piebald, which means she had a 50/50 chance of being a carrier. Of course now I know she carries piebald. I didn't care one way or the other if she carried because I knew the puppies would carry and I just wanted a show pup or two out of the litter which is why I bred them in the first place. As far as the price, ALL of my pups are the SAME price regardless of their color, pattern, sex , show or pet. All piebald pups are spayed or neutered prior to leaving my home, all other pets go on spay/neuter contracts and papers are witheld until proof of spay/neuter is given to me by their Vet and they have a certain amount of time to do this or the puppy's ownership reverts back to me and this IS in my contract. I do not limit registrations because then the people cannot show the puppy in any avenue due to the limited registration. I would be more than happy for pet homes to do obedience, agility, field trials, earthdog or any other event the dog can be entered into. You will not see one of my dogs in a puppy mill. I only sell show puppies to people I KNOW or to a novice on a co-ownership with lots of strings attached. I may eventually sign off on the dachshund if I feel I can trust the person to do what is right in their breeding practices, otherwise, I would co-own it indefinately

[britomart]

I cannot wait to see more pictures! Thanks for the genetics lesson. Despite all we know, the actual outcome is always the best surprise. Keep us posted on the progress of all of your beautiful new pups.

[Juneysmom]

I really love your white puppy. She is so beautiful and so innocent and angelic looking. :angel:

[K.Middler]

Well GOOD LUCK showing her Becky since we both know there are judges who re-read the Standard when they see something NEW and as the Standard says "a small amount of WHITE on the chest is ACCEPTABLE, but NOT DESIRABLE". Also on" ONE colored dogs the nose and nails are to be BLACK"as per the Standard. At lest some breeder judges will look at her in the ring for the way she moves and is put together.

[juliette]

Becky - I am facinated to see how she grows and if her colour changes at all. I beg you, please post more pictures of her as she matures so this group on fanatics can see how she matures. Personally, she's an :angel: and I hope that if you decide to show her that all judges will adore her for her quality as an addition to the breed.

Out of curiousity - I know the breed standard only states about the small amount of white on the chest as acceptable but undesirable - but how does that leave your piebalds in the ring? Are there judges that automatically disqualify them despite their obvious structural standard and overall beauty?

[Mack]

Along the lines of Juliette's post below, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking you probably have to do a little judge shopping to determine what shows in which to enter your piebalds. I would imagine there are old-line judges who wouldn't place a piebald for anything -- and others who have more open minds.

[Owen's Mom]

It's too bad that so much gets misconstrued on message boards. I admitted that I made assumptions from your previous posts and did not accuse you of planning on selling "rare" colors for inflated prices. I did say that I see it happen all too often when a new color is introduced. Heck, you can still find breeders that refer to dapples and piebalds as "rare" and inflate the prices. It's amazing what they do with creme now a-days along with Isabellas price-wise.

I made a natural assumption that you were trying for white after your in depth discussion on genetics, as if you were expecting it to happen, or wanted it to happen.

[Dachshundrsq]

Judges immediately dismiss piebald dachshunds. There was one judge who dismissed a whole ring of 5-6 double dapples because the judge thought they were piebald, the handlers tried to reason with the judge but the judge was not up for any discussion, didn't want to see pedigrees, or anything, just dismissed all double dapples from the ring. I had a ribbon withheld one time on Cinder, it broke the major. I had an elderly judge tell me Cinder was lovely and wanted to know how many points she had, I told him he gave her her first one. He was very suprised. I took Binky out and the Judge looked at his teeth, ran his hand down his back and told me to take him down and back, that was the extent he went over him. He should have had winners dog that day considering what else was in the ring. Every now and then you get a judge that doesn't SEE color/pattern and actually looks at the dog, you can also every now and then find a judge who could care less about who is on the other end of the lead and they actually judge the dog. I went to a show just to watch once because I missed the day the entries closed, anyway my friends were showing and I watched the judge. He was having all the dogs go around one by one, he would look at the dog, then look at the handler, then the dog again. He put up only very well known breeders/handlers. These are the ones who get marked in the handy little book about judges. Yes, you DO have to be selective sometimes about which judges you pick. There is actually a list of NON-piebald judges as there is one that will put them up. If it is not known, we usually give them a try. If crappy dogs get put up over better piebald dachshunds, then they get put on the Non-Piebald list. You have to take into consideration the dogs entered when you decide if a judge has actually judged the dogs or judged some "other" thing. I have absolutely no problem loosing to better dogs. Some dogs cannot be denied, others it is a crying same that they actually won. I show all of my dogs myself, unless I happen to have 2 class winners or 2 winners in the ring and have to ask a friend to take one in for me. Many people get frustrated and put their dogs out with handlers to finish them. I really enjoy showing so I hope I never do that. It does get very frustrating at times with all of the politics involved. I was ecstatic happy when Rosie went to the National Mini and picked up a 5 point major. You could have heard a pin drop except for the extreme excitement I was feeling and my friends cheering me on. There was nothing political in that judging. I hope to get Rosie finished this summer because her little girl is coming out and she is an improvement on her mother and I am sure she will beat her Momma in the ring and since I travel to most shows with Oslyn's owner, they will likely be competing against eachother in the bred-by class. I am sure this white girl will not do real well in the ring IF she stays white, and that is even if she turns out to be show quality, this will not be decided for quite some time anyway. I think she has faint dots of black coming on her lips and her nose. Some of her littermates have already started getting dots on their noses. They can get spots of pigment on the skin that does not come through to the hair. The piebald boy has a few spots on the skin on his back, I noticed them today. The pups were 7 days old yesterday.

[juliette]

For the interesting information in this thread. Obviously we are pet owners only of our dogs - and honestly we "fluked" into dachshunds at first when we rescued Otto. (Like a lot of folks the reaction was "I couldn't believe we ended up with a dachshund, now I couldn't live without one).

While we certainly will never show our dogs, I'm interested in going to a few local shows this summer - does anybody know a primer (on line or traditional) on what to expect, what to look for, etc???

Becky - I really appreciate all the genetic/showing info you've provided here. Like everything, the better educated we owners are, the better life is for our dogs.

Cheers

[Mack]

Thanks for taking the time to respond so thoroughly. I was confused by one thing, though. Regarding the judge who dismissed all the double dapples because he thought they were piebalds: Does that mean the judge would have let them pass if he knew they were double dapples? I don't see the reasoning.

[Heidismom]

I will also be anxiously awaiting more photos! Do you have the rest of the litter posted anywhere? Or a litter photo you could post here? I really appreciate the info passed along, as well. It is so fascinating! I read dog mysteries about the politics in the dog judging ring, and I knew it existed - but what a shame to blow off a dog just because of color or pattern and not even SEE the conformation - sigh! Julia
:book:

[blazeman]

Here Ya Go... (http://www.dachsie.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5163)

[minicooper]

What a gorgeous little girl!

I can't wait to see picture as she grows up!!

[Cindi]

Becky, blue does exist outside of dapples :). Blue and tans, etc. where blue is the dilute black. This blue color, however, unlike the blue in dapples, is usually also linked to problems with lack of hair and occasionally skin problems unfortunately as many dilutions.

Mack, the reason the judge would have looked at double dapples and not piebalds is because at the PRESENT time, double dapples are mentioned in the dachshund written standard while piebalds are not. That is the unfortunate *problem* in our current standard seen by many is that we DO discuss color and many judges go *strictly by the book*...if it ain't IN the book they aren't going to judge it. And many judges cannot/will not go to the effort of learning the differences between doubles and piebalds. Many (or maybe most) of the hound breeds that deal with color description say (any allowed hound color). If our standard would have said that, we would not have this problem. (Would double dapples have been OK then? Would regular dapples? Are there other hounds with dapples? Just asking - don't throw things y'all <G>)

Cindi

[blazeman]

Cindi

I think the Blue becky was talking about was eye color. Someone had asked if they would be pink (like an albino).

Not trying to start a fight... I just reread to see if I read it right the first time :)

[Mack]

Hmmm. I see. That is a problem. I can see both points of view. Theoretically, could piebalds be classified as "two-colored'' dachshunds?

The standard says, "Two colored dachshunds INCLUDE black and tan, chocolate, etc. ..." The word INCLUDE means "have among other things.''

In other words, by definition, the standard could read that two-colored dachshunds may include other colors besides the one specifically listed ... as long as there are tan points. ... Of course, there is a contradiction because the standard for one-color and two-color dachshunds also reads that a "small amount'' of white is permissible on the chest.




:book:

[Cindi]

Thanks Blazeman! I read it too quickly as is my wont lately with babies in the house....get things done quickly before havoc sets in again. Momma was sick yesterday which necessitated handfeeding for a day and no sleep for the night. Thankfully she is feeling better but now I'm handfeeding HER.

And Mack, you caught the problem with the two-color very quickly :) AND...you see it is *color* and TAN and that color wouldn't be white because of the *small white on chest permissible but not desirable*.

It will be oh so much nicer when *not if but when* DCA finally does get around to getting the color description changed in the standard. However they get it changed whether it be describing piebalds or finding a way to say *any hound color allowed* in terminology that AKC will accept because they will no longer accept the use of any other breed or *dog* verbage in the description of your breed.

Cindi

[blazeman]

I am glad momma dachs is feeling better! I would LOVE to get into showing and breeding our little ones... but right now I need to work to keep the one I have under a good roof :)

If I ever win the lottery... you could see my name at Westminster :)

There is one problem there though... I don't play the lottery ;)

[Cindi]

I have that SAME problem - you could see ME with a well trained dog(s) if I could only win the lottery cuz then I would have the time.........but they keep telling me I have to PLAY the lottery; I have to let go of that $$$$$ first to win the big $$$$.

I don't like those rules :(

Cindi

PS Breeding is, unfortunately, not always fun...cleaning up puke and *the other*; feeding round the clock with little to no sleep and then still having to go to work, taking the crew with you to work cuz you have to watch them all to make sure no one has problems; worrying that you HAD to take them work...and this was minor. The lady I co-own Momma with had a litter 2 weeks ago 9 days early and of 3 puppies only one made it and she has had to hand-raise it (yes it had to go to work every day); another litter was born by section and out of 6 only 3 made it. Very sad.

[carpet gator]

How is your litter doing? I was wondering how the white female turned out. I visited your homepage, but didn't see anything on her. Did she ever get any coloring? I would love to see more pics.