Did my vet do the right thing

[Tanya]

Punkin was my very first dachshund and now I'm a dschsieholic! I have a question for any of you that may have more dachsie experience than me. I still have Josie, so I want to make sure I do what is best for her. I was in the mall this past weekend and ran into a friend who owns a dachsie. Lucy has been treated with steroids once for paralysis and fully recovered and has had the surgery and fully recovered. So, when I was telling my friend my story of Punkin, she told me something that bothered me and made me doubt my vet. I told her that I called the vet when Punkin became paralyzed. It was almost midnight when we called and he said to put her in a crate or something that would limit her movement because there was nothing he could do now that couldn't wait until morning. He did say bring her right in first thing. Well, my friend told me that he should have started treatment ASAP and not waited until morning. I know it isn't going to bring my sweet Punkin back http://dachsie.org/ubb/angel.gif, but I want to use a vet that is going to try hard for my babies...not one who doesn't want to get out of bed at night. I really thought he did his best for Punkin...now...I don't know http://dachsie.org/ubb/kfrown.gif. What do you say??

[pluto'slanie]

Tanya, most vets don't have office hours into the night and as much as we love our pets I think it's unrealistic to think they will be on call. http://dachsie.org/ubb/frown.gif Is there an emergency vet in the area or are you near a veterinary university teaching hospital? When Pluto has become sick during the night and I feel it a vet is needed, I take him to an emergency room. The care has always been wonderful and I follow up with his vet. If you feel there is an emergency that shouldn't wait until morning, and I hope there isn't, next time you might try emergency room care. Lanie

[This message has been edited by pluto'slanie (edited May 02, 2000).]

[Mark]

Hi Tanya,

I agree with Lanie . . . every Dachsie or dog owner should know where nearby emergency clinics are and if their staff is familiar with the breeds predispositions. Having been through it twice . . . once with Duck Butter and we were just real lucky (we didn't know and weren't prepared), then with Masse, we were ready and had her there within 30 minutes of the seizure.

Don't beat yourself up over it . . . like us with Duck Butter, you just didn't know and your Vet probably just did the best he knew, too. If your Vet is completely unfamiliar with Dachsie problems and/or you question his inaction . . . you could change Vets, but that's your call.

I'm sure you'll be ready if & when Josie ever needs help, day or night! Hopefully an unnecessary preparation.

Take care,

Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark (edited May 02, 2000).]

[Tina]

The results of surgery are best when done within 24 hours after the first symptoms and other kinds of therapy is recommended within 12-18 hours. Many vets don´t thing steroids are so useful after all; last fall I was listening to a British specialist who practically almost condemned the use of steroids in disc disease. So the opinions are divided but I don´t think your vet did anything wrong. And it is really critical that the dog is crated immediately to prevent further damage. But at any rate it is good idea always to have available the number of an emergency clinic.

[Tanya]

We don't have an emergency vet clinic anywhere near. We did at one time, but for some reason it closed. It was only staffed by one vet.

Our vet, in the past, met us at the office if there was an emergency. He then sold his practice to our current vet. The message on his phone (our vet)after hours gives his pager number so he can be reached in an emergency. Some vets in our area partner and take turns being on call. Probably baceause we have no emergency facility.

The closest teaching hospitals, University of Georgia and Auburn, are both 4 hours from me and I was told I needed a referral from my vet.

I hope my vet tried his best. He has performed the surgery before and was successful. You know I tried to get her into the teaching hospital, but they wouldn't take her because of the holidays. I know I shouldn't be, but that makes me a little bitter. Do they think pets don't get sick at Christmas. I know I know they want to be home with their families and I'm being selfish.

Thanks for your response Mark and Lani. I try not to beat myself up. I wish my friend had never told me that. I hate to think I didn't give Punkin the absolute best care. I am not rich by any means but money was never a consideration. We would have done anything for her. I'm sure you know and feel the same about your dachsies. Pray that I get some piece of mind! Have any of you felt so heartbroken after the death of a pet that you felt that is all you think about??

I am normal...really I am!! http://dachsie.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Penny's Aunt]

It's easy for people to say what your vet did was wrong. And I can guarantee that if you asked 10 vets what treatment they recommend for a dachsie down in the hindquarters, you would get at least 8 different answers.

Even though more is being learned all the time, a lot of it is theory (like the stuff you read in the paper about human medical "breakthroughs"). Most vets probably keep up with vet med news as well as they can. They read the theory, then mesh that with their personal experience, & file it in their memory for future reference.

Today is probably a good day for everyone here to call their vet & find out their feelings on what should be done if your dog suddenly becomes paralyzed. Does it recommend a specialist? Does it want to see it first himself?

Unless your vet specializes in spinal surgery, I would have a specialist handle it. This is nothing against your vet; no one can specialize in everything, it's impossible. Some vets like to do the surgery themselves. In my personal opinion, this is scary. I don't want someone who's only done spinal surgery twice (with unknown results) to practice on my dog. If he wants to specialize, why isn't he working with a specialist?

Your best bet is to ask questions. If your vet doesn't like to answer questions, it's time to find a vet that does.

[Tanya]

Thanks Penny's Aunt for your great info. Are you a vet or a breeder? You seem to know so much and give really great advice.

I've thought about what my friend told me and about my vet. He was at the clininc waiting on us first thing when we brought Punkin in. He treated her with meds because at the time she had deep pain sensation and he thought the meds and crating would work. When it didn't, he tried his best to get her in to the teaching hospitals where they have specialists. It wasn't his fault I guess that they would accept her. Having no other choice...he did the only thing he knew...he performed the surgery because he had done several in the past and was successful. When she died, he took it as a personal failure (his secretary told me ha said that and that he was very upset). So, I guess I do think he tried his very best for Punkin. Christine's comment just threw me off I guess. Now that I calmed down and really thought about it, I know Dr. Greene tried his best.

[Mark]

Hi Tanya,

I did some searching on the web and made some calls. Several of the area (macon, etc) Vets and Animal Hospitals use:

Savannah Veterinary Emergency Clinic PC
317 Eisenhower Drive
Savannah, GA 31406 - (912)355-6113

I ran a drive time analysis and it said that they are 4 hrs. 40 minutes from Leesburg. I also called them and they said Dr. Shooey (spelling?) is their resident Dachsie surgeon with great success. They typically required a referral except if the dog is "down", then they just need a call first. That's about all I found out because they do all their surgery in the AM and they were quite busy when I called. There may be one closer, but it would probably take several hours of web searching and phone calls to uncover them. You may want to give them a call in the afternoon and see what you think . . . at least until a closer one surfaces.

I hope that helps and if I get a free couple of hours I'll do some more checking.

Mark

[MaverickMom]

Tanya,

Just for information, I don't think the University of GA has to have a recommendation. I don't know about Auburn. We took a horse to UGA one time several years ago and no one recommended us then. I just called them (UGA) and talked to a wonderful vet over the phone many times before we made the decision to take the horse up there to see him. As a matter of fact, I'm sure I still have the number to the clinic. It is an awesome facility and I was SOOO impressed with everyone I came into contact with. Unfortunatly, we lost the horse anyway but I honestly believe that they did everything in their power to save him. They were extremly knowledgable and very compasionate. I was very impressed.


Sonya

[Tanya]

Thanks Sonya. I have heard great things about UGA, but they wouldn't take Punkin. They probably would have had it not been so close to the Christmas holidays. My vets (husband and wife team) are graduates of UGA and thought they could get her in, but had no success. They did say I needed to be referred.

Wow Mark! How kind of you to look up that info. UGA and Auburn are both 4 hours away so Savannah is a little further. It's good to know they have someone there though...I was unaware.

We had a great surgeon here by the name of Dr. Lingle who has performed MANY dachsie surgeries with great success. He still preferred the teaching hospitals do the surgery, be he would do it if that was not an option for the owner. He can put the most hopeless broken bones together just like new. A vet had an owner fly their lab to Albany for some type of bone repair and he did it. Unfortunately, he retired and I couldn't get him. I have rotten luck! http://dachsie.org/ubb/smile.gif But thanks for all the info. You guys are so helpful! It is appreciated!

[Penny's Aunt]

Christmas/New Year's holidays can wreak havoc with an emergency, that's true. You can't blame these guys for wanting to spend some time with their families, & a lot of them are out of the area at the time.

Also, I believe there are probably different degrees of damage in the spines. Some have pain+paralysis, some have just partial paralysis, & some just have total paralysis with no pain. I just can't believe different symptoms are all caused by the exact same thing in the same degree. There are just too many variables.

I think your vet probably did everything he could. Sometimes nothing works, no matter what.

It's like a story I heard years ago: a little boy asked God for something every night in his prayers. After two weeks of no results, he asked his mother why God wasn't answering his prayer. His mother said maybe he did and the answer was "No".

p.s. I was a veterinary technician for 11 years, working for a great doctor that didn't mind a chronic question-asker (me) & explained all the hows, whys & wherefores that he knew. If he didn't know, he said so.

[This message has been edited by Penny's Aunt (edited May 03, 2000).]

[wireweiners]

Tanya, I think your vet did the best he could. There wasn't much he could do in the middle of the night but recommend crating. One first aid tip for back problems. I always keep some Rimadyl on hand. It is a non-steroidal anti-inflamatory, so when my guys first start acting ouchy and I can't get them to the vet right away I start them on the Rimadyl. It can have harmful effects on the liver given long term but I've never had a problem with giving them Rimadyl short term.
I have to brag on my vet, Dr. Shively. I live in a small town and we have no emergency clinic. I have his home number and he has never hesitated to come out in a real emergency. Wheeler had hemoraggic (sp) gastroenteritis when he was about a year old. He started having bloody projectile diahrrea about 11:00 pm. I called my vet and he met me at the office. He started IV fluids and antibiotics and took Wheeler home with him to watch him. I think Wheeler would have died if Dr. Shively hadn't been there. Last December, Rita had to have a c-section at 1:00 am. Dr. Shively's wife, Jennifer, didn't even sound grouchy when I woke her up with a call that Rita was having difficulty whelping. We did the section and one of the pups, Button, was born with some of her intestines on the outside. I thought we would have to put her down. Dr. Shively said no, lets give her a chance and did surgery on this tiny newborn to repair the problem. Today Button is a beautiful girl and I will start to show her this summer. http://dachsie.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Penny's Aunt]

I trust you won't be breeding Button, despite showing her?

There is a drawback to using pain-killers & anti-inflammatory meds on injuries (which back problems are). These types of med can suppress the pain, & let the dog move around more than he would if he were in pain. And his moving around could make the original problem worse.

I'm not saying never to use them, but if you do, you ABSOLUTELY must keep the dog confined to a small area, like a crate. And never, ever think the problem has gone away because the dog feels better. He still needs to see the vet.

[wireweiners]

I have talked to my vet and several breeders whose opinion I trust and they have all told me that Button's problem is basically an umbilical hernia and not a genetic problem. My vet says that breeding her would not create any health problem for her. So I really can't say at this point. She is a very lovely puppy and comes from impeccable blood lines. I think the hernia problem came about because her mom is rather small and the pups were HUGE! I don't think there was enough room in the uterus and that could have kept pressure on the cords that kept the opening from closing properly.
I agree with you totally about the Rimadyl. You must keep the dog as immobile as possible. The point of giving Rimadyl as a first aid treatment is to try to stop or lessen the inflammation and pressure on the spinal column. Its a first aid only, you should get the dog to the vet asap.

[Tanya]

Yes Wirewieners, after I had my panic attack over my friend's comment and had a chance to think clearly, I do think Dr. Green did everything he could for my Punkin. He will make night visits in an emergency since we have no ER, but there was nothing he could do in the middle of the night. I think I just panicked. It is interesting about the Rimadyl. Maybe if I could have given her something and crated her and things would have worked out better. Maybe not though. Dr. Green said he could not believe the amount of damage to her spinal cord. He said it looked like her vertebrae just exploded into herback. She had no pain though and I'm glad she didn't lie there in agony.

Thanks! I've been gone a few days thanks to the I love you virus! It took our system down twice!

[wireweiners]

If the damage was that bad Rimadyl would not have done much good. A few years ago I went to a seminar on back problems at the National specialty. A vet from the U of Ga spoke to us. He said that there are different kinds of back problems. Most are where the disc gradually starts protruding causing pressure on the spinal cord. This can be helped with meds or surgery. The other is where the disc blows out like a tire and causes a tremendous amount of damage to the cord. He said this last kind often cannot be treated successfully. Sounds like this might have been what happened to Punkin.

[Tanya]

Wireweiners, I'm glad you passed this info on to me. That does sound exactly like what happened to Punkin. The vet said she had a major explosion. It sounds like maybe surgery, no matter who performed it, wouldn't have helped much. Thanks.

[Boonech]

Tanya,

I know exactly how you feel. I lost my Molly about 7 months ago, and I still sometimes blame myself for not being educated about dachsie backs. Molly went down on a Sunday evening and because I didn't really know what was going on, my first instinct was to crate her for the night and get her into the vet first thing Monday.

By the time we got there, she had lost all deep pain. It's still too painful for me to hash out all the details http://dachsie.org/ubb/kfrown.gif but I've learned so much about intervertebral disc disease, what the symtoms are what most importantly ...what to do if it happens to Gretchen or Annie!

We both should stop blaming ourselves, remember what we've learned, and always keep those wonderful memories of our pets.

[Mark]

Hi Tanya,

The "explosion" type is exactly what the neurosurgeon described to us about what Duck Butter experienced. He credited the full recovery to the fact we had her IN surgery within three hours of the event, but at the time still only gave her a 60-70% chance of regaining the use of her legs. I think it was also attributal to the skill of the surgeon, but he would never say so. These days she has a touch of arthritus controlled (mostly) by a Cosamine supplement and 1/2 tab of Rimadyl daily. We are thinking of giving the supplement to Masse and Top Spin too. Masse to ward off potential back difficulties and Top Spin for hips.

I've also talked to others who have waited as long as several days for the surgery and also experienced a full recovery. Then there are those that had all the right emergency treatments available promptly and it didn't help. I think there are so many variables that the results can't be predicted and everyone just has to do the best they can.

I think, as do others here, that your Vet offered the best advice possible, given the circumstances.

We were just very lucky.

Mark

[Tanya]

Thanks Mark and Boonech for your replies. I was very informed about invertebral disk disease. When Punkin was diagnosed, I learned all I could about it so I could do the best thing for Punkin. I think I did all I could...and I think my vet did all he could as well. My vet and I both knew UGA would be the best place for her, but UGA wouldn't take her so we did the best we could with what we had. It's just very frustrating to know that the best people to help her...wouldn't. But, I don't blame them anymore either. It was just meant to be I guess. At first, I blamed myself mostly and then others as I went through the grieving process. I am some better and don't blame anyone. I just wish I could overcome this heavy feeling in my chest . My biggest thing...I hope Punkin knew I did what I could and I did not abandon her.