What do you know about muzzles?

[Mrs.F]

Do any of you use a muzzle? Have you heard of problems associated with SUPERVISED use of muzzles?

Penny and Maggie are still fighting terribly, and my "trainer by telephone" suggested that I muzzle them in the evenings so that they can't hurt each other but can still get close to each other. (We currently have them on leads any time they are in the same room, but don't allow them to get very close.) The muzzles would keep Penny and Maggie from biting each other and in time we should be able to do without them.

I stopped at the vet's on my way home from work today to buy the muzzles, but was advised NOT to use them. A former patient, (a young, healthy Pomeranian) was rushed in for emergency treatment but couldn't be saved. He was wearing a muzzle to curb excessive barking and aspirated. The owner was home, but couldn't get the muzzle off quickly enough or something.....

Any advice?



<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Mrs.F on November 29, 2000 at 04:26 PM</font>

[wireweiners]

The muzzle I used on Sundae was wire and didn't fit all that tight. She could open her mouth, pant, etc. just couldn't bite Dolly. If they were trying to use a muzzle to stop barking they probably had it so tight that the dog couldn't open its mouth. You don't have to have one that tight. Just tight enough so they can't bite each other. Just thought of another trick that I heard about at a Gary Wilkes seminar. He was doing some private work for a person with 2 husky females that fought. He was at his wit's end. The 2 began posturing at each other and the only thing at hand was some throw pillows on the couch. He yelled no really loud and threw the pillows at them as hard as he could. Said it scared the bejeezus out of the dogs and put a stop to the posturing. Don't know if it would work for you but its worth a try.

<FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by wireweiners on November 29, 2000 at 04:36 PM</font>

[Penny's Aunt]

There are actual anti-aggression training sessions that use muzzles in what are called "Growl Sessions". All the dogs are muzzled & turned loose together. They can growl & posture all they like, but when they figure out they can't bite, & no one can bite them, things cool down.

If you look through a dog catalog, Mrs. F, you will probably see a nylon muzzle that fits the muzzle quite snugly. If a dog were to get that twisted around, or get a paw caught in it, I can see how a dog might get asphixiated. But it takes 3-5 minutes for brain death to occur from lack of oxygen. I have the feeling that the dog your vet mentioned WASN'T supervised, & the owner just found it too late. I can't believe an owner couldn't find a pair of scissors or a knife or even nail clippers to open a muzzle in an emergency, within 3 minutes. It was probably a case similar to mothers that leave their young babies in the bathtub unsupervised to answer the phone.

I would go with your original idea. It may help the situation immensely, & it certainly can't hurt. I would go with the wire-basket type of muzzle that allows the dog to pant & drink freely.

Please let us all know what the results of your experiment are.

[Mickamack]

I used a muzzle on Mickey for Dachshund Day in August. He is aggressive towards other dogs, and I didn't want him to go after any of the other dogs, so I muzzled him. This way he could approach, sniff, or run away if he felt threatened in any way. When he calmed down, I took the muzzle off, and he was fine the rest of the day.

The dogs are not going to like the muzzle. Mickey kept trying to get it off, and sometimes succeeded. That was a mesh muzzle, so maybe the wire basket muzzle like PA mentioned would work better.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

[Oscar's Mom]

I don't know anything about muzzles but have you thought about getting them pincher collars? I have one for Oscar and its much safer then a choker (not as mean as it looks). If you keep them on leads with the pincher collar on, then you could correct them immediately if they start to fight. Just a thought, it might not be the right thing for your situation.

[Penny's Aunt]

I think Mrs. F is mostly concerned about the times she's got her back turned or is out of the room. She doesn't want to come back to a scene of gore. Like most dogs, they're probably smart enough to know Mom doesn't like this behavior, so they wait until she's not looking.

[~Jen~]

Hi Mrs. F longtime no see... really sorry to hear about Penny and Maggie http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/frown.gif I use a muzzle when i trim nails on some of my babies because they will snap and bite ... i also used one awhile back when the boys where having there little dominace issues. The ones i use came from Fosters and Smith... i had one that said they could drink with it on but they could still snap too... so we bought just a soft black nylon one... here is the link to the one we have .... our dogs have never had any trouble breathing in them although they try to get it off they have never been sucessful as of yet http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif I got size 1
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=676

Good Luck hope the girls work this out soon
http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/frown.gif

Jen

[Mrs.F]

We've been keeping the dogs on leashes so that we can prevent fights and things were going pretty well. On Monday night we were watching TV and reading with a dog on each lap, and my husband dozed off. Penny was snoozing on my lap and I was totally engrossed in my book and oblivious to the world. He either loosened his grip or let go of the leash as he snoozed and for some reason Maggie jumped off of Fergie's lap and was on Penny in seconds. Penny turned around and got hold of Maggie's rear leg before I could separate them. Maggie's howling startled poor Fergie awake and he grabbed the trusty old Super Soaker and soaked both dogs, the couch and the wife but Penny finally let go. Maggie's got a nasty gash in her leg, but thankfully that's all. Penny was particularly rough and persistent - perhaps because she was attacked in her sleep, or perhaps she's just getting sick of the attacks.
Anyway, that's why I want to try the muzzles. The leash thing is an OK intervention - but it's not very practical for evenings when we want to do other things but still have the dogs with us. If they were muzzled they would have a little more freedom of movement, but wouldn't be able to bite each other.

I'm leaning towards the basket type muzzle because the Pomeranian I mentioned earlier vomited, couldn't open his mouth enough to get rid of the vomit and aspirated it into his lungs...... The Velcro muzzles look more comfortable, but now that I've got the aspirating thing in my head I don't think I could relax with a tight muzzle.

Weather permitting, I'll head to the "city" tomorrow after school in hopes of buying 2 little muzzles. I'm assuming I can get them at Pet Quarters, if not I'll order them from Foster and Smith. (Thanks for the link Jen.)

[Mrs.F]

A friend picked up 2 nylon 'comfort muzzles' for us today when she went to the city to do some Christmas shopping, and Penny and Maggie are testing them out this afternoon!
Both dogs are rather subdued, but neither seems terribly uncomfortable or desperate to get the muzzle off. They've gone after each other twice, but couldn't do much more than growl and roll around together. Penny ended up on top, holding Maggie down with her paw both times.
Right now they are lying on opposite ends of the couch eyeing each other suspiciously.
I'm praying that this will work.......

[~Jen~]

Dont worry they will get used to the muzzles it will take time... hopefully they wont need them for long enough to get too used to them. Comeon Penny and Maggie be good lil girls and play nice! <IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm36.gif" border=0>

Good Luck
Jen

[Penny's Aunt]

Each one is probably blaming the other for the muzzles. Fortunately, glaring doesn't cause vet bills.

[Mrs.F]

There seems to be a nervous truce right now.... still muzzled of course. We are taking every possible opportunity to separate them though, so that the muzzles can come off, (going out to get the newspaper, 4 different opportunities to keep family members company while they showered, a ride to Driver's Ed, etc. etc.) and Penny's adjusted pretty well to the muzzle. She doesn't like it, but can still get comfy. Poor Mags acts as though she's wearing some type of torture device!!!