allergic hair loss

[twix0699]

I have a year old doxie and she is losing her hair. I thought I had this problem taken care of -- when she was about 6 to 8 months old the same thing happened only her skin became red and swollen in her front armpit. My vet said it was food allergy and I changed her food and everything seemed to be better til lately. She again has began to lose hair but her skin seems normal. She is on a premium allergy food and her coat couldn't be in better shape. I have begun to let her out for longer periods because she loves to lay in the grass. I am now giving her 1ml of liquid benedryl twice daily for about the past week and a half but I have seen no improvement. Could this be from something else? How do I know that the benedryl is working? She really doesn't sneeze or cough much so I can't tell by that. Her hair loss has gotten worse. She looses it on her ears, neck, chest, and tail mostly but I have noticed some thinning on her sides and top of her head. Help! My vet says the only other option I have is for some very expensive allergy testing and that isn't always accurate. I don't know what to do.

Teresa and Twix <IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm18.gif" border=0>

<font color="#00FFFF" font size="1">[This message has been edited by twix0699 (edited September 06, 2000).]</font>

[Roxane]

Hi:
As anyone who has had to deal with allergic reactions in dogs will tell you, it is usually a very frustrating experience. Since I once had a GSD who was allergic to grass, could that be a possibility? Have a friend who had to ship her young Dobe out of this area because she was allergic to our tree pollen.
My older Dobe, Annie, has very, very thin hair in the areas that usually indicate thyroid problems. Yet her annual test show normal thyroid range. In every other respect she is a very healthy girl.
Whatever it is we feel it has a genetic basis. A littermate had to be pulled off the show circuit for the same reasons.
The vets find it equally frustrating because on a case by case basis, it could be _anything_. I know this doesn't help your situation, just thought I'd let you know I understand, sympathize and hope your can find the underlying cause.
Roxane

[~8DachsieAngels~]

Can i ask what color to dachsie is? Blues and Isabella's tend to have a genetic skin condition called Color Mutant Alopecia it is characterized by hairloss beginning around age 6mos or so can cause scaliness which can lead to infection and itching... Here is a link for more info. on CMA
http://www.miniaturedachshunds.com

You need to click on "Explaination of colors and patterns" and then scroll down til you see blue or isabella and you will see a link to read more about CMA. Good Luck if your dog isnt a blue or isabella it could still have this same condition it is just is more common among the dilute colors.

Jen

<font color="#00FFFF" font size="1">[This message has been edited by ~8DachsieAngels~ (edited September 06, 2000).]</font>

[twix0699]

Thanks for the info. Twix is a dark red (mahogany?) I have a reply posted under coats, colors, and sizes to wild boar longhairs (I think) that explains her color. I was wondering if she could be allergic to grass since it has gotten worse since I have been letting her out to lay in the grass.

[Wienergal]

Teresa, I sympathize completely! As long-time members of this board have heard over and over again, my 12-year-old black-and-tan, Peaches, has had severe allergies for 10 years. She has had permanent hair loss (her ears are virtually bald), seasonal hair loss, intense itching, red skin, bumpy skin, lichenification...you name it!

My one major piece of advice for you is this: DO NOT HAVE THE ALLERGY TESTING!!! I had that done on Peaches; the first visit cost me $500. What that yielded was a list of everything she was allergic to--grass, maple pollen, leaf mold, a bunch of dietary items, etc., etc. OK, fine--but the problem was that that information did not result in a cure, or even any substantial relief. I gave her daily allergy shots, then every other day, then twice-weekly, etc. for two years. It did no good whatsoever. Total cost: more than $2000.

So then Dr. Bigtime Allergist decided that she must have Cushing's syndrome. She was tested and came back positive, although she had no signs, other than the skin problems. Three years of Lysodren. Total cost: about $1000. Result: nothing. No change.

No cream, ointment, shampoo, rinse, or over-the-counter allergy medicine (like Benadryl) ever worked. Food supplements didn't work. Diet changes didn't work.

Here is what worked: a drug called Temeril-P, which is a non-sedating prescription antihistamine with a small dose of prednisone, coupled with antibiotics--she takes these medications from spring until the first frost. Her paws are still itchy, but she doesn't bite them raw any more, she has had no more hair loss, and no more skin reactions. I had to think long and hard about giving her even the small steroid dose, but I decided that she was so miserable that her quality of life was really poor five to six months out of every year, so if the steroids shortened her life by a year, at least she could be comfortable for the rest of her life.

Twix is probably not at that point yet. But maybe you could ask your vet about a course of Temeril (minus the -P) and antibiotics, and see whether that produces any change.

Good luck! Allergies are terribly frustrating to deal with!

[twix0699]

Weinergal,
Thanks for the information. I am sure sorry that you have had so many problems with Peaches. I was wondering...Twix is not a big eater of dog food and could this be from lack of proper nutrition? Of course I don't feed her table scraps but she sure tries! She likes working for treats. How do I know if the benedryl is working? The only symptom she has is the hair loss and it will take a while before it grows back. What are the antibiotics that Peaches takes for? Does she get skin infections? When Twix first started losing hair at about 6 months old she also had some sort of skin problem under her arm. Her hair loss is worse than it was then but no skin problems that I know of. Oh, I take that back--she had something weird on her ears. My first doxie had the same thing. Around the edges her ears get real scaley (?) and flake off. As she loses more hair on her ears, they get more flakes. Is this a normal weiner problem? Can it be fixed? Thanks for the help!
Teresa

<font color="#00FFFF" font size="1">[This message has been edited by twix0699 (edited September 07, 2000).]</font>

[Wienergal]

The hair loss could be a result of poor diet. With skin problems, you sometimes have to just throw everything at the problem and hope that something you've thrown produces SOME results! There are some wonderful super-premium dog foods. Avo-derm is specially formulated for skin; my dogs eat Inova, and I have to say that Peaches's coat is better this year than it has ever been. Also, every dog who comes into this house LOVES Inova. So Twix might eat more.

The reason I thought Twix might be developing an atopic disorder was the telltale "under-the-arm" skin lesions. With dachsies, there's often a lot of rubbing in that area, and the constant irritation can set up chronic inflammation in dogs prone to such things. The fact that she has problems on a number of body areas COULD indicate allergies.

Or not. http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/disgust.gif

The antibiotic Peaches takes is cephalexin. Different antibiotics are active against different microorganisms, and this one is especially good against Staphylococcus infections, which are very common on the skin. When a dog's skin is compromised--either by irritation or an internal problem--it's a perfect opportunity for the bacteria that live on the skin normally to invade the skin and set up an infection. What's worse is that the bacteria themselves stimulate even MORE inflammation and immune system malfunctioning, so it really is a vicious cycle.

But if Twix isn't itching or red in the areas of hair loss, an infection probably has not been established.

I wouldn't give Benadryl (after having tried it already....) because, first, it is sedating, so it makes the dog a little droopy and dry-mouthed, and second, at the over-the-counter doses, it really isn't good for much beyond dealing with an insect bite.

Is there any scaling in the hair loss area? If so, are the scales greasy? Is there any kind of odor?

[twix0699]

She does have some scaling on her ears but it isn't greasy. Why do you ask?
I feed Twix California Natural which is made by Innova. I originally started on that because of the few ingredients when she was a puppy. The vet told me she had food allergies and put her on some food by Iams that had fish in it. I didn't like it because it gave her fish breath and I tried the California natural. The puppy food is what I started her on and she seemed to eat that okay but we have changed to the dogie food and she doesn't eat as much. I have always free fed her because she just eats a piece here and there. Even when she was a puppy. With all the nutrients in the food her coat is beautiful but how would I know if she is getting enough? She isn't under weight. Thanks for all your help, I sure do appreciate it. I think my vet just wants to do the allergy testing and I don't have the $$ to do that now.
Why do dogs lose hair from allergies? If it were allergies would there be other signs? Like sneezing? Sometimes one of her eyes looks watery but it is only one eye and I know that usually allergies affect both eyes. It isn't watery to the point of tearing either so maybe she just has something in it?
Teresa

[Wienergal]

Boy, this is so funny--I spent the whole day today in a meeting, discussing atopic skin disorders. It's what I do for a living.....

A dog with skin allergies doesn't necessarily sneeze. Atopic humans may have one or all of the "atopic triad" disorders--atopic dermatitis, "hay fever," and asthma. But the respiratory allergies are rare in dogs. One watery eye? Is the lining red?

I asked about the greasiness and odor because greasy, smelly scales indicate seborrheic dermatitis, a separate disorder. But that's apparently not what's going on with Twix.

OK, back to square one. Twix is obviously one of those mutant dachshunds who isn't food-crazed. Have you tried putting olive oil or bacon fat on her kibble? If she isn't getting enough fat in her diet, she might just have very dry skin.

[twix0699]

I assume you are in the medical field? Are you a dr or a nurse? Just curious, I am in the medical field also. I work for an optometrist.

I don't notice the lining being red in that one eye. It just looks like she has extra tears in that eye. I don't know how to explain it. It doesn't run down her face, its just that when I look at her there seems to be more tears along the lower lid and it is always the same eye. No, I haven't put any kind of grease on her food. I would think that if she had severe dry skin it would be flakey. Is that not true? Only her ears seem to flake. The last weenie I had developed digestive problems due to table scraps so I haven't given her any...okay, okay, on occasion she gets some<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm12.gif" border=0> She likes food but she likes mine better than hers so she holds out. I would say she eats about 2 to 3 cups of kibble in a week. I know, not normal but I like it because she isn't overweight. Some days she eats her allotment and other days I don't think she eats at all. Anyway, do you think I should give her some grease on her food? What about giving her an egg once or twice a week? Aren't they supposed to be good for the coat?
Teresa

[Penny's Aunt]

As far as I can tell, the allergy testing only is worth the $$$ when your dog is allergic to something that you can remove from her location. It would work with food, but how can you get her away from grass & pollen?

Is she scratching? You can give liquid Benedryl (or the generic) in the amount of 1ml for every two pounds of body weight. So, if she's 10 lbs, you can give 5ml. But my vet says there's really no bad effects from overdosing, so don't worry about that. If she is scratching before the Benedryl & stops about an hour after you give it, it's working.

Since she does have hair loss, you might ask your vet about sarcoptic mange. It's very hard to find in skin scrapings, but fairly easy to treat (much more so than demodex). Some people ask that their dogs be treated for it just to eliminate the possibility. I think I would tend to be one of those. Also, sarcoptic mange is easily transmittable to humans. It shows up as a rash around your waist or where the lower band of your bra fits, anywhere the skin is bound or there is friction from clothes.

If she has a grass allergy, you might consider filling a container with plain water & rinsing her off before she comes in the house. If you have a supply of old washcloths or towels, you could also wipe her down (esp belly, feet & face) every time she comes in from the yard, removing as much of that invisible pollen as you can. If this helps, it would indicate a grass allergy.

You might also e-mail the maker of your dog food & ask if they have changed any small part of the ingredient list since she has started this problem again.

If all else fails, give her human food. Generally, 1/3 meat (not trimmings), 1/3 vegetables, & 1/3 grains should provide a balanced diet. If she shows improvement on this diet, it is probably a food allergy, or a reaction to one of the preservatives in the dog foods.

[twix0699]

I talked to my vet today and she said that Twix definately (did I spell that right?) doesn't have mange. She said as long as Twix has had this that she would be totally bald by now. I have had her on 1ml of benadryl twice daily for a couple of weeks but I don't notice that she has stopped losing hair. She said she had another medicine that I could put her on but I don't know if I want her to be trying out a bunch of medicines. My vet said that all we could do was keep trying them to see what worked that just like people some antihistamines work and some don't. I think that her allergy is more of an outdoor thing. I noticed her losing more hair as I started letting her be outside more. As the weather gets colder she won't want to be out. Should I just let things be and see if that fixes the problem? If it does, is it harmful for her to be exposed in the summer months? Will her hair grow back or not? I know that you said Peaches hair hasn't grown back on her ears, Wienergal. Did she have all over hair loss like Twix? I just don't know what to do and don't have the financial resourses to do a lot<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm10.gif" border=0> .

Thanks again for everyone's help, we appreciate it. <IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm29.gif" border=0>

Teresa and Twix<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm3.gif" border=0>

<font color="#00FFFF" font size="1">[This message has been edited by twix0699 (edited September 12, 2000).]</font>

[Mrs.F]

I don't know for sure but I imagine her hair will grow back in although it's a slow process. My Penny looses about half the hair on her ears, a large patch on her chest and just about all the hair on her belly in the spring/summer. Her coat was starting to look very lush and full again (March/April) - then the bald, pinkish skin started showing up on her chest again in the middle/end of May. She is healthy otherwise and has not ever seemed uncomfortable or concerned with the bald patches, so I've never treated them. (My vet feels it's allergy related, so I feed her California Natural. Her coat is glossy and healthy looking, just sparse in spots!)
I tried keeping a t-shirt on Penny last summer because the vet told me he thought it was a "contact dermatitis", but she didn't like it, so I decided to just let it be. She's rather distinctive looking with her leathery ears.... <IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm38.gif" border=0>
Her ears look whitish around the edges when the hair first starts to fall out. Last summer we thought she had the 'left over cereal milk' that my daughter always slips her dried on her ears, but no matter how much I washed them, they'd dry white and slightly crusty again! She doesn't have dry skin as such - it's very soft and her coat is quite glossy - it's just those ears! I put Skin so Soft on them while we're watching TV at night. I'm not sure if it really helps but it makes me feel better!

<font color="#00FFFF" font size="1">[This message has been edited by Mrs.F (edited September 12, 2000).]</font>

[twix0699]

Wow! I never knew so many dogs had problems with allergies. I guess the reason I keep trying to treat her is that I'm afraid I'll end up with a Chinese Hairless Dachshund <IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm2.gif" border=0>! So, I guess I can let it go and see what happens. I feed Twix California Natural too and her coat is great! Thanks for all your replies and suggestions.

Teresa and Twix

[Wienergal]

Hi, Teresa--sorry it's taken me so long to respond to your latest posts. No, I'm not a doctor, and I don't play one on TV--I'm a medical writer, and I do a lot of work in dermatology, among other disciplines.

Peaches DID lose hair all over her body because of her atopy. It grew back after allergy season everywhere except on her ears. They just stayed bald-ish.

I REALLY understand your reluctance to shell out moneymoneymoney in the hopes of maybe stumbling across something that will work. That's why I advised against the allergy testing. I don't even want to think about what I've spent on Peaches's allergies, but let me just say that I want to buy a new car and if she hadn't been so sickly, I'd be able to pay cash for one. http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/rolleyes.gif

If Twix isn't itching, I don't think any antihistamine will do much good. The one drug I would try is the Temeril-P that I mentioned to you--because it's the only thing that helped Peaches. It's not all that expensive, and you would know pretty quickly whether it was doing the job. It sounds as if she is allergic to something, and you're doing everything else right, sooooo....

[twix0699]

That sounds like a pretty interesting job. It is kinda funny for you to have a dog that has problems in what you write about.

Anyway, how would I know fairly quickly if the Temeril-P worked? Wouldn't I have to wait and see if her hair grew back? Or did you notice other changes in Peaches? I have an appointment at the vet tomorrow for her vaccinations and want to talk to her about all this. I sure do appreciate your information and willingness to share Peaches progress with me. (So does Twix <IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm3.gif" border=0> )

Teresa and Twix

[Wienergal]

Teresa, you'd know the drug was working because you would see her skin improve and her hair growing back in. It happens fairly quickly.

The other approach you might want to take, now that we're moving into the fall, is just to wait and see: If Twix's condition improves in the late fall/winter, when there's less contact with grass, pollen, etc., then you'll know for sure that there is an allergy or atopy at work. If that happens, you can try the drug in the spring, at the first sign of problems. I forgot to check to see where you live--I'm assuming it's somewhere with four seasons!

[twix0699]

I had to take Twix in to board at my vet over a long weekend and she said she would try a new medication on her since I didn't feel the benedryl was helping. When I picked her up the drug the vet had put her on is: chlorpheniramine maleate. Which of course means nothing to me!! I have been giving it to her for about 10 days now and I see some improvement in hair growth<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm35.gif" border=0> !!! That sure does make me happy. I didn't think that the hair would start growing in that fast. My vet said she wanted to try this before she tried the Temeril-P since it didn't have a steroid in it. Any way, I just wanted to update you all on what was going on. She is actually growing hair on her belly again!! Not much yet but there is some there!!! YEA!!!<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm11.gif" border=0> I could just do cartwheels I am so happy about this working!

Thanks so much for all your help and patience.

Teresa and Twix<IMG SRC="http://dachsie.org/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm20.gif" border=0>

[Roxane]

Hi:
Been following the post and didn't have anything to add until now:
Hooray, seems like you are well on your way to a solution! http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/bounce.gif
Roxane

[twix0699]

Roxanne,

Thanks for the support. I have a dumb question. Where do you get those smiles that jump around like that? Are they over there and I'm just too dumb to figure out which ones do that? I like the ones that wave too. Just thought I'd ask.

Teresa and Twix

[Roxane]

Hi:
With webtv I have to do things the long way around. I clicked on the Smilies Legend (over the little faces), that brings up all the graphics. Then I printed them out as a reference. I am sure one of our computer members might give you an easier way to do it.
While you are waiting, smile! http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/smile.gif
Roxane

[JJandChloe]

Chloe also has alot of allergy problems. We did the shot routine for awhile, but I was very concerned with the long term side effects of any steroid use. I gave her a bath with generic dandruff shampoo one day (for lack of anything else to use), lo and behold, her bumps and itching subsided!!! I wash her regularly now with it, we still have a little bump every now and then, but nothing like before. We also deal with food allergies, been to the vet twice for emergency treatment, so I am very careful now what I feed her.

[Wienergal]

Teresa, I'm so glad to hear that your vet has found something that works for Twix!! Allergies are so frustrating to treat that I think many vets--and human doctors too!--just prescribe an antihistamine and hope it works. Sometimes you have to nudge them along a bit. Very good news!

We're happy here because the temperature is about to plummet. Cold weather means that Peaches's allergies go away for another season. Which means she goes off her medications. HOORAY!

There's another way to insert smilies into your posts: Click on the words "Smilies Legend" to the left of the message box. All of the smilies are shown, along with the codes to type in to make the smiley appear. It's usually a colon followed by the code word followed by another colon. So if you type (colon)bounce(colon), you get this --http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/bounce.gif!

[dutchman]

AVO the same people who make the AVO line of pet foods Derm, ActiveCare, etc also markets a coal tar base dog shampoo along with a few other skin care products. Coal tar is the active ingredient in many shampoos marketed for people with skin problems. While generic people dandruff shampoo is most likely cheaper it's nice to know there is a good product out there for animals.

Tom

[twix0699]

Thanks for the advise!
JJ and Chloe--glad to see the two of you on the board!! http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/kiss2.gif

Okay, wienergal, we will see if that worked!!

Twix doesn't really have any "skin" problems. She just loses her hair!! I asked my vet if I should keep Twix on the med all winter or take her off. She said to wait till we have a good freeze and then take her off to see what happens. If she starts losing hair to put her back on. She is still recommending allergy testing though. I really don't want to do that. Is it bad for her to be on an antihistamine long term? She is a young doxie. Is it possible that this medicine will stop working?

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions--they are really appreciated. http://dachsie.org/ubb/smilies/happy.gif

Teresa and Twix