no clue

[CoCo]

I'm a bit clueless when it comes to what is common, uncommon or even rare.

The breeder (and I use that term sparingly) said that the Isabella is a rare coat? Is this true?

And if so, where and when would it matter - ie: Show?

And is my CoCo a common color/coat/pattern?

I think she is going to have a LOT of hair. It is already quite thick and she has the cutest little patch of lighter fur on her chest....

Thanks:D

[Meemoo]

Check out these sites for info on color and patterns of dachsies.

http://www.dachshund-dca.org/Colors.html
http://www.longnleandoxies.com/Pages/colorspatterns2.html
http://www.12many.com/duchwood/colorpat.html
http://www.doxieskennel.com/colors2.html

[Mack]

Let me say what a doll that CoCo is! She is a chocolate longhair, right?

You asked about Isabella. That color is not rare, though certainly it is less prevalent than red or black and tan -- or chocolate.

As far as when does it matter? Probably when a breeder tries to tell you it's "rare'' in order to make a couple extra bucks.

[Me&DappledDuo]

First- nope, NO acceptable color or pattern under the dachshund standards is "rare". isabella is simply the dilution of chocolate. Not creams, not sables, not brindles, pies, dapples, or diluted colors. They're all extremely common amongst the many byb and mills- it's quality and responsible breeding that's always hard to find.

Solid chocolates are actually becoming quite common- Dutch's (bad) breeder has 10-20 chocolate puppies a year!!! :eek: Longhairs seem to be the most popular coat for Chocolates, solids (like Coco) are the most common- but I've also met several more dapples (and Mack's got one, too!:)). They're not as well known as the good old reds and b&ts, but as they've been mass-produced by many BYB and mills, they're being seen more and more.

A GOOD isabella is difficult to find. They often have AWFUL coats and are prone to alopecia (hairloss), due to the genes that cause the dilution. Many times, this isn't seen until the dog is fully grown- meaning that a breeder can sell an issy or blue puppy as something "rare", the naive puppy-buyers pay an inflated price for the puppy, and later on- end up paying TONS of $$$$ for the treatment of their dog's skin conditions. In showing - conforming to dachshund standards (physical type) matters MUCH more than color does.

As pointed out in the "blue" thread- dilution is a recessive gene- thus can pop up in just about any line. A responsible breeder wouldn't try to cash in on that, though- knowing how pre-disposed for health problems they'll be. Nor would a responsible breeder call any color/pattern/coat rare.

BTW- your Coco shares a flaw that's becoming all too common with chocolates and reds (my Dutch included): dilution of the nose and eyes.

Chocolates should have a liver colored nose and brownish eyes. While a pink nose and green eyes are striking- everybody seems to love Dutch's- they are considered confirmation flaws. I'm sorry to tell you- but that alone states that she is most definitely NOT show quality. Hey, she's still cute!!! I adore Dutch's green eyes and silly pink nose. I have no DOUBT that his breeder (like the one you've been dealing with...) has a LOT to learn, though.

[CoCo]

Well, I knew CoCo wasn't rare, and even read on one post, or talked with someone who said chocos have dry skin .....

I thought that Isabella wasn't necessarily "rare" nice to hear that... Yeah, she's wayyyyyyyyyy out for a buck and so are a lot of them by the crap on the Internet.... One in Texas actually brags about his dapples and double dapples... now I realize that all double dapples aren't bad, but since any of them have problems, I think a real breeder would quit. I would, but then *I* like to have eye sight!

Dilution of the nose and eyes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That lying *****!!

Oh well :D she's too gorgeous to toss back.... I think I will still have ten year old show her in little local shows....we'll see, I say that and then get busy with the horses...

I don't think the breeder I dealt with has a lot to learn I think she is hiding what she already knows to her benefit.

But hey, Missy was a rescue and now CoCo is of sorts also, so her spirit led me to the pup that needed me the most...

Oh crap, I'm crying again............ :crying:

[dutchman]

In case you hadn't thought of it when it comes time for some obedience classes you might check to see if the local 4H offers them. That would be a great place for you daughter to learn how to work wit CoCo. I know someone I use to work with here in Fort Collins that shows Labs teaches some of the 4H classes. I don't know if 4H offers any puppy classes or showmanship classes but it could be worth checking out.

[TessieMom]

Even if she has faults, you can still do obedience and agility and other things with her!

[ShewShew]

And don't forget earthdog!!

[CoCo]

For sure on the obiendence (can't spell) and agility. We want to make some course equipment but I havan't looked it up yet on how to make it.

Earth dog?????????????? :book: time for research........;)

Shampooed carpets today, already !LOL

I think I may do the "Canine Solutions" here in the Springs vs. 4-H just because of the meetings, but then again, it might be worth a call.

Thanks everyone.....

[Me&DappledDuo]

Oh, I do agree! She's so sweet- and I think showing her locally will be a great opportunity for your daughter (and yourself, if you're at all interested :)) to learn more about what MAKES a good dachshund.

Many longhairs generally do okay with obedience and agility- and Earthdog is just MADE for dachshunds! I bet that'd be fun- if I had any more on my plate, though- it'd probably crack down the middle! :lol:

Like I said- correct or not, green eyes and pink noses are adorable. I would love to see pictures of her on a regular basis- it's soooo fun to watch them grow up!! :D

[Cindi]

I'm confused. Not something new for me but..... :D Were you sold Coco under the impression she was an isabella and is that Coco in the picture with the cat? If so, I hope you didn't put that color on her registration papers although color IS the one thing AKC will let you change <GG>

If she is very young, her eye color could still change. It won't change to dark brown but it could change fromt he green (which I adore the green eyes <G>). Also, it is quite possible that her nose (does Dutch's do this?) will darken when she has more access to natural sunlight.

Cindi

[Me&DappledDuo]

Yes, Cindi- Dutch's nose HAS darkened a bit- but NO way is it liver colored. Mack's Hannah has a liver nose- the proper color, as I understand. Dutch's eyes are still very green. As follows- both his nose and eyes are more sensitive to sunlight than his dark nose/eyed bro and sis. He squints terribly on sunny days- kind of like me and my light eyes. I have a feeling the darkening of his nose is a result of a tan of sorts- that the sun DID have a lot to do with it. But it's no where near the correct color- it's almost RED now!:eek:

I'll cross my fingers that Coco DOES turn out- even though the look of green eyes and pink nose is SO cute!! :)

[Cindi]

Some noses, snow noses, change colors due to the lack of sunshine. I had a white German shepherd that went from pink in winter to - honest to goodness - black in the summer. It was very bizarre. However, the lack of pigment is a known entity in chocolate and tans (which Coco appears soooooo dark I'm amazed her pigment is light) and reds carrying chocolate or dilute reds or e reds.

And yeah, those who have lighter eyes be they human or dogs do have a sensitivity to light. I'm fortunate in that I have hazel eyes and I guess they aren't as sensitive as the really green or blue eyes. I rarely wear sunglasses in Texas :)

Off to bed for me now :asleep:

Cindi

[CoCo]

No, I knew she was chocolate, but her mom is Isabella and actually the mom to her mom is a dapple with one blue eye. Dad is an Isabella too if I recall right.

The woman did say she was show quality but her contract says "pet quality only" on all of them, so who knows, wasn't why I got her but just shows that this breeder either doesn't know show quality from a hole in the ground or she'll say anything to make a sale. Which, show had nothing to do with it anyway.

I'll have to remember that about the sunlight thing !!

Thanks for the replies.... CoCo:dog:

[Cindi]

I'm not entirely sure about the recessives being able to produce a good colored chocolate and tan (which Coco's coat color is very pretty and dark from her picture) if both parents were recessive Isabellas. The fact that her grandmother is a dapple is, as you know, not relevant to Coco BECAUSE dapple can't be carried recessively.

I can't believe that breeder....putting show quality on Coco's papers...how nice <G> I hope you didn't have to pay for those words <GGGG> Not that she can't be lovely in her conformation and be deserving to be in the show ring. It's that she would willingly breed two Isabella's, according to her, and think she would come up with show quality and I'll bet there are limited champions in the background.

Cindi

[CoCo]

when I first called about this pup she said she was easily show quality.

When I went to check out the pup and sign the contract it said 'pet quality' when I asked about the difference she said something along the lines of "I can't guarentee who wins a show and who doesn't, so they all go out as pet quality"

Either way, I was getting the dog and I think she knew that. I paid (well, the insurance paid) $500, not sure if that was high or not.

Now that I know more, I just got an email from someone I had emailed before this breeder. She has three different kinds of small dogs and sells mini D's. She wants $650 for full AKC on a smooth silver dapple. She said she has "five breeders, one male and two sweet pets" as to her Doxs.... hmmm. I'm learning !!!!!

And she's willing to let the pups go at 7 weeks :eek:

[Cindi]

You have come across 2 *lovely* (read sarcasm) breeders.'

Cindi

[CoCo]

I seem to have found them all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another one I called said she had a LOT of dogs by kennel standards and when I aksed her about health guarentees and written contracts she said she didn't have one and that since Doxs don't have any big health issues she didn't see a need to make one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then I found another in Texas that willingly and purposely breeds double dapples for "distinctive patterns".....................

The one I spoke of in the post below, she has Papillions, Shiztu (sp) and mini D's.......

Clearly that bill needs to be passed as this is quite the business and she told me she's 57 and been doing this since she was 18, that's a lot of puppies.....................:eek:

[Cindi]

My state of Texas ABOUNDS with the idiotic commercial breeders who truly believe they are doing a bang-up job. And they are doing a bang-up job....it's just WHAT job they are doing that they don't want to be fully aware :(

Cindi