Back Problems

[joanh]

Hello Everyone,
I'm new and happy to meet you all, but sad for the reason I found you. A short time ago my 4-year old mini "Rosie" stopped jumping up on the couch. Stupid me, I didn't know jumping up or stairs were bad, I thought back problems were caused by overweight and age! WRONG! Within a few days her "funny walk" had me running to the vet. A shot helped almost immediately but it was very temporary, just 2 days. We are now on our 5th day of prednisone and total crate rest. She is only slightly better and the vet recommends surgery. I do not want surgery!!!! After searching for some answers on the internet, I'm planning to ask for Adequan injections in the morning. I'm starting vitamin C. I'm new at this and scared. Any advice or recommendations will be appreciated more than you know! Thank you !!!:confused:

[Mark]

Hi Joan . . . welcome to DBB!! :wave:

We're sorry to hear that Rosie is fighting with IVDD. Jean and I have been thru the surgery process several times. In each case recovery was at or near 100% (pretty lucky, we think) :) . . . there *are* some cases where holistic cures or approaches have worked. You say, "I do not want surgery!!!!" . . . may we ask why?

I'm sure the DBB members will *weigh in* with their successes . . . with or without surgery. There are some articles that may be helpful, linked to our homepage http://dachsie.org . . . click on Health Care.

Good luck, please keep us posted and we're sending a bazillion DBB Healing RAYZ to help heal Rosie!

:rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz:

[Meemoo]

Welcome to DBB! :) I'm sorry you are coming to us with a problem, but hopefully Rosie will feel better in no time and you can just enjoy this board! Don't beat yourself up about jumping etc., these little guys LOVE to do it and sometimes it is just IMPOSSIBLE to stop them. I know-I have a jumping bean myself!;) I have also dealt with back issues..once last November and just recently within the past month again! No fun at all...However, dachshunds are a tough breed and usually can make a full recovery. If you can't do surgery (the vet recommended it) then there are also other methods you can try. We have been fortunate in that Chief has not had SUCH a severe bout that surgery was even considered. However, many dogs who don't go the surgery route can still recover! The most important thing, which you are already doing is strict crate rest. Did the vet give you a muscle relaxant along with the steroids? Did the vet do any x-rays? Can Rosie walk? Check out these links for great info on back issues and treatments.

http://tealdachs.com/back.html

Feel free to PM or email me and I"d be glad to chat with you! I know it is SO difficult to watch them in pain and not know how to help them. One thing though that is very important, is to try to stay upbeat...difficult i know... but Rosie will pick up on your stress, so try to be happy happy happy, will help in her recovery.

Lots of rayz and please keep us posted. Lots of us have been in your shoes.

[lotsadox]

Welcome to DBB! I'm sorry to hear about Rosie's back problems. I've been through it twice. The first time was a nine year old with who was fairly bad. She had surgery and the recovery was about 90%. She's now 15 years old and still going. The second was a 14 year old. Because of her age we decided against surgery and did chiropractic and a healing touch practitioner. They really helped her. After the first time that the healing touch practitioner saw her, she slept for about an hour and got up and walked down the hall for the first time in two weeks. Accupuncture is also effective and the was the next thing that I was going to try.

[TessieMom]

Welcome to DBB. I tried to respond last night, but the server was flakey. I tend to go with the vet's recommendations. In those cases that surgery has been suggested, it has been successful. Peppy (my foster in the other thread in this section) responded to pain killers, prednisolone, and strict crate rest. He is doing extremely well, but he is only a year old and only had mild problems.

Good luck and lots of healing dachsie rays. You might also want to check out the Disabled Dachshund Society.

[joanh]

for your replies. Rosie seems a bit better this morning. I've spent several hours last night "surfing" the web for back problem stories. Although my vet has recommended surgery, I'm sort of confused as to why. She has not taken x-rays. Rosie is taking steroids and muscle relaxers. Today is her 5th day of treatment. Rosie doesn't seem as bad as many of the stories I have read, many of whom recovered without surgery. Maybe the dogs who didn't make it don't post their stories. That's an awful thought. But Rosie is not crying in pain (she shakes a little sometimes, but she always does that to get attention!), she still has bladder and bowel control, and she can walk, but her back legs are a bit wobbly. Perhaps I am just kidding myself that she can recover without surgery. She is the BEST dog in the world and I can't picture life without her! (I know you will all say the same thing! That's why I know you all understand.) The hard truth for me is that I'm a single mom with 2 kids. The $3000 to $6000 estimate for surgery quoted to be is more than 2 months salary. So I'm praying and searching for that non-surgical cure. I'm looking for the acupuncture/chiropractic person today. I'm in San Diego, does anyone know someone? Thanks again for your help and support.

[Mark]

a specialist in your area? If so, we recommend making an appointment ASAP. They are far better equipped and knowledgable (than a general vet) to make a recommendation . . . and you might find the estimate to be far less than you are being quoted now. General vets also do not have the range of experiences a good canine neurosurgeon does. Even better would be if there is a Vet Teaching Hospital in the area. They are extremely well equipped for this and less pricey.

In the meantime, strict crate rest is the appropriate action . . . only being *carried* out to potty.

Please *do* keep us posted and we're sending more DBB Healing RAYZ to you and little Rosie :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz:

[Meemoo]

course of action if you can. Have you tried to find a holistic vet who does accupuncture. Don't know if any of these are close to you but it's worth checking.

http://www.ivas.org/cm_list.cfm

More rayz!

[Meemoo]

http://www.petloverspublications.com/sandiego/BusinessListings.htm#VETERINARIANS

http://www.simplypets.com/pet-directory/Pet_Companies/Health/Veterinarians/United_States/California/

http://www.thecityofsandiego.com/acupuncture/

[joanh]

thanks again for caring. Rosie has been sleeping all morning. My regular vet said no Adequan. He doesn't think it works. He did give me the name of an accupuncture vet, and I left a message on their voice mail. I also e-mailed an accupuncture vet from the web page suggested by MeeMoo. (extra thanks!)

I spoke to several vets and 2 neurologists yesterday. One is on vacation until 3-11. The other, I'm told by several local vets, is the best in So. Ca. BUT, they are the ones who told me up to $2,200 to diagnose her and up to $4000+ for surgery. But they will look at her for $100. Can't get in until next week. I'm keeping that option open while I wait to hear from the accupuncture vets. I'm also told surgery is successful 60% of the time. About the same as non-surgical? Don't know yet. You can tell I'm still struggling for answers but at least now I'm feeling we have some options and I'm feeling a bit hopeful! Thanks again, you are GREAT!!!

[Meemoo]

not sure if you called this one?

http://www.thecityofsandiego.com/animal-acupuncture/index.html

Adequan works for some and others it doesn't. Surgery doesn't always work, you are correct. I know of a few who went for surgery but didn't come out any better. :( I guess it's a crap shoot of sorts. You have to do what you feel is best. We have been doing accupuncture now for over a year. Chief just LOVES going and I do think it has been helpful. He also had one injection of adequan. Don't know if it helped or not, but it certainly didn't hurt. We also do a range of supplements-but I don't think I would start that now as she's not feeling well..but when she's better.it's something to consider. More rayz headed your way.

Please keep us posted and let us know if you need anything. We are all here for you.

[minicooper]

First of all, Welcome to DBB!

I am sorry that you found us because of Rosie's problem, but I am glad you found us anyway!

Many of us here have been through IVDD with their dachsies, some opting for surgery and some using other methods of treatment. I am one who did not do surgery, even though it was recommended, twice.
Cooper was 10 years old when he first ruptured a disc. I knew very little about Disc Disease until then, and I thought surgery was the only option, but my vet at the time, recommended crate rest and steroids, unless there was a turn for the worse. We were very lucky with him, and he recovered 99%!
Mini was 6 when her calcification caused a disc to rupture. My vet recommended surgery, but I was very hesitant. The surgery has a very low success rate in Australia. I made the decision that I was prepared and willing to care for her for the rest of her life, whether disabled or not. She was on strict crate rest for 4 weeks, and a course of steroids. There was very little improvement for about the first two weeks, and then she slowly started to regain strength in her back legs. She has recovered fully, although she does have a slight weakness in the back end.
Cooper ruptured another disc last February (exactly 12 months ago yesterday) and he was totally paralysed in the back end, no bowel or bladder control, although he did have deep pain sensation. (the poor boy cried when the vet expressed his bladder) The vet again recommended surgery, but due to his age (12 years old) and the fact he has a heart condition, we opted for other methods. I was assured by the vet that, worse case scenario would be total paralysis, but that he would be in no pain. About 6 weeks of total crate rest, and Cooper still could not walk, although he could stand on his legs, and he had regained bowel and bladder control. We discussed the availability of a cart with the vet, because we both felt the paralysis would be permanent. The following day Cooper walked for the first time! (did he hear the arrangements for a cart? ) He has improved quite a bit since then! He can walk around on flat ground, but not up or down steps. He will always wobble a bit, but he is happy and pain free.
Both Mini and Cooper are on 1000mg Ester C daily, and I believe that has helped them a lot.
I am sending heaps of Rays to Rosie :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: for a speedy recovery!
Feel free to email me anytime you want!

[Heide]

our loving DBB family. I am sad its at a time like this.
I am sending mega Ms rayz to your sweetheart.
I am one who doesnt post about my experience due to the bad outcome.
I still mourn for my Casey Jones.
But hopefully with the strict crate rest and steroids things will turn around soon.
I am keeping you all in our thoughts and prayers. Remember we are here all the time for you.
Please keep us updated.

[Patt]

:waving: Welcome Joanh & Rosie :waving:

Happy that you have found this wonderful board. I have never had this experience with my puppers but looks like you have received lots of good advice. Here is another link for you to check out http://www.dodgerslist.com/

Sending prayers & mega rayz :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: to little Rosie. Please keep us updated.

[Funny Girl]

With my older gal, she's 9.
I opted for surgery and am glad I did because it was sucessful.
But it was terribly expensive (nearly $5,000).

I'm in San Diego too, in the North County.

I'll give you the link here to where my girl went...

It's http://www.vshsd.com


Sometimes I do wonder if surgery was really necessary.
My girl, Funny Girl, still had pain sensation even though
she was completely paralyzed by the time we arrived at the
hospital.

She ruptured her T-13 and L-1 .
Dr. David Lipsitz performed her surgery.

I would ask him his advice on alternatives to surgery
and see what he says.

They are located in Rancho Santa Fe by the Helen Woodward
Center.

Good luck!

~Susan~

[willsana]

When my Dachshund, Duffy, had a back episode my vet also thought surgery was needed. I took her to a wonderful neurologist in Newport Beach. It has been 10 years ago now and I am sorry I do not remember his name. The tests were expensive. Around $1,500 then. But he did not suggest surgery. He gave me instructions on how to handle her back issues. She was 6 years old. She lived past 14 with very little back pain and died of another age related problem.

I don't know if any of this information is helpful or at least encouraging.

Sorry I am so late welcoming you to the DBB. WELCOME! And please keep us updated on how Rosie is doing.

[joanh]

Yes . . . Yes. . . Yes. . all of your stories help and give me hope. My vet has also recommended the Veterinary Specialty Hospital in Rancho Santa Fe. I've spoken to them and I haven't ruled them out. Rosie is about the same, perhaps a little better. She is adjusting to life in the small travel crate. But, she doesn't want to potty when I take her out - this is becoming a problem. This morning she wanted to run around and bark. Of course, I wouldn't let her, but she was standing straight, all feet on the ground before I quickly picked her up. Last night on my lap she leaned her head back and scratched her ear with one of her back feet. It happened quickly and maybe I shouldn't have let her do it, but I thought that her having that kind of control of her back leg was good. So I'm trying to remain hopeful . . . I know it will be a very slow road back. I'm anxious to speak to the accupuncture vets. Your caring and advice mean more to me than you know!!!

[Meemoo]

she can see you from all angles, might be worth investing in one. It will make her feel secure that she can see the the world around her. :) Glad to hear she is improving a little. Steroids and muscle relaxers tend to help-but don't let it fool you that she is ready to run normally! They also tend to make puppers thirsty and pee more so be on the look out! Let us know how you make out on the accupuncture appointment! When she is much improved I'll tell you about supplements you might want to consider.

More rays!

[dutchman]

Boy I take a day off just as someone needs my support. I too would recommend a review by a good neurologist. What about a VTH surely there must be one out there? I know close is always nice and I would think there should be some good neurologist in your area. Many dachshunds respond well to the conservative non surgical therapy. signs that generally indicate surgery ASAP are rapid onset paralysis especially if there is an indication of the loss of deep pair response. Please keep us updated on how things are going.

[Funny Girl]

For mentioning about the 'signs of surgery needed ASAP -
rapid onset of paralysis.'

I think my Funny Girl was in that category, as it happened
quickly with her.

So on that note, I'm glad I chose surgery.
But it does tick me off at how expensive it was.
It is a gamble regardless of which method ya choose.

I read stories of success WITHOUT surgery and I wonder if I
"wasted" all of that money??

Let's face it, the SURGEON gets the 2nd biggest chunk -
at least that was with my case.

Like I said, it's a gamble. "never say never."!

~Susan~

[dutchman]

You never know for sure but you try to find a respected expert and take their advice. Aggie went down hill very fast and they had a hard time telling if she still had deep pain response since she was so stoic. Her time as a mill breeder made her stoic.

[Meemoo]

how's the pup this A.M?

[joanh]

I think she's about the same. No worse, that's for sure. She's still trying to run around. She stands pretty straight on all 4 legs until I ask her to potty. Then she sits. Doesn't want to go, she's going only once a day. This morning what she wanted was food. She was very hungry. I've been giving her just a little hamburger morning and night with her meds. (She's very small, just 7 lbs.)So after that, I gave her a small bowl of her regular food and she settled right down and is resting comfortably. The accupuncture vet called last night. She was VERY encouraging. She wanted me to understand that even after she was better that this would be a lifetime concern. Of course, I already know that. She said she can make her feel better pain wise immediately. Rosie doesn't cry but she shakes. I can't tell if she's in pain, she's tough. AND Dr. Wilbur, the vet, said she has had tremendous success treating this problem with accupuncture. She was encouraged that Rosie is not paralyzed and is still walking. So, although I've come down with a nasty cold I'm feeling better, I was feeling very down yesterday. The vet comes to the house tomorrow 10am. House calls no less . . . she says she comes to the house because the dogs are more comfortable. Wow, it sounds like she really cares! I'm cautiously optimistic and haven't cried at all today! Wish us luck!

[dutchman]

Sending rays and I hope every thing works out. If this is truly a back/disk problem she is experiencing I would strongly suggest you confine her to a kennel and only allow her out for potty breaks for several weeks. I know it's difficult to keep them confined when they start to act better but the confinement is really for their own good while the tissue in the area of the injury has time to stabilize and heal. Letting them get too active too soon can increase the chance of any disk fragements shifting and putting additional pressure on the spine.

I hope that didn't sound too harsh it wasn't meant to be but it just sounds like none of the vets you have worked with so far have stressed the importance of the crate rest period to an overall recovery with the conservative treatment of a possible IDD injury.

Take care please keep us updated on how things are going.

[Meemoo]

wishing you luck. As for pain, shivering is often a sign of pain, not that it means that Rosie is in pain, but it's possible. As for being extra hungry, steroids do that, as well as make you thirsty and pee more. :) Ever see a human on steroids, they puff up! As far as only pooping once, well she is not active, so therefore less activity=less poops which frequenlty if not careful could mean extra wight gain so be careful. :)

Yep..we do accupuncture as a routine thing now. Housecalls..sounds good to me! Anything that makes the dog more comfortable is what improves the healing process! Keep us posted.

You keep yourself well too..get some rest, drink fluids and take your vitamins!

Let us know how it goes!

[joanh]

Thanks for your concern . . . don't worry, just because Rosie can and wants to walk, I DO NOT let her. She is only out of her tiny travel kennel when she's quietly on my lap (she loves me to hold the heating pad on her back) or potty breaks. AND when we do go outside I only let her take one or two steps. I think that's why she won't go, she thinks she needs to sniff all over and find that perfect spot and I won't let her! HA

[alfina]

I am glad you are feeling better and that your pup is going to get her first accupuncture tomorrow. I know it does work from experience in my own family. My grandmother used to get to help her control he blood pressure. Let us know how it goes.

[dutchman]

Thank you for the update:) I feel better now knowing she is being supervised and movement confined. Sending more rays for a happy outcome. My one boy tanner had a couple of accupuncture treatments last summer when he had some type of back muscular problem going on. It was right after his second treatment that he really turned the bend but no one can say for sure if it was the treatments or the drugs he had been taking that did the trick. In any case he did get his best rest the nights following his evening treatments. One of the vets at my regular clinic is certified in accupuncture. It turned out to be the vet who was treating Tanner and when I ask about accupuncture he was more than willing to give it a try. He generally only uses it in longer term cronic pain cases so he hadn't suggested it before.

[TessieMom]

Sending more rays and hoping that the acupuncture helps her!

[Kim H.]

sending rayz for her AND her mom :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: Accupuncture sounds terrific... and housecalls even better. Have the provider give you some too, while she's there.:)

[Meemoo]

this morning?

[joanh]

I believe Rosie is improving slightly. She had her 1st accupuncture treatment this morning. The vet, Dr. Wilbur, was very encouraging. She was very happy with how the treatment went. Rosie, who is a very busy girl, settled down and was quiet. I was surprized. She gets another treatment on Friday and will bring herbs to treat her with as well. I'm very pleased. Thanks again for the rayz and caring . . . it has helped!
Joan

[Patt]

Thanks for the good news update.
Sending more rayz :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: to Rosie.

[TessieMom]

Glad to hear that the treatment went so well! More rays are on their way!

[Heide]

Oh that is very very good news.
Please keep us updated.
Sending more Mega rayz

[lotsadox]

That's great news! Sending more rayz for Rosie's continued recovery. :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz:

[Meemoo]

accupuncture frequently relaxes them! Chief just LOVES to go for accupuncture, he RUNS into the clinic!

[Meemoo]

today? Thinking of you!

[minicooper]

Sorry I haven't posted much to this thread, but I have been reading all the updates!

I am glad that Rosie has been making such good progress!

How is she going today?

[Meemoo]

more :rayz: :rayz: for good measure!

[Kim H.]

and I hope Chief is doing better too, and bouncing around NY in the manner to which he is accustomed!!!

[joanh]

Rosie is OK . . . we've settled into a routine. About 23 hours a day in the crate with some Potti breaks and lap time. She's had 2 acupuncture treatments and we have another scheduled for this Tuesday. I'm thinking about trying a bath tonight. I think it would make us both feel better. Our days are filled with highs and lows. Sometimes when I open the crate she attempts to bolt out - all 4 legs going and tail wagging furiously. But at other times she moves slowly and her back legs collapse on her. She rights herself so that's a good sign. She a bit better about "going" on her potti breaks. I understand that a slow recovery is normal and I'm patient. I am still scared, but try to remain optomistic. I think about all of you all the time. It helps just knowing there are people out there who understand. You wealth of knowledge has been so valuable. Thank you!

[TessieMom]

Glad that she is doing so well! Continued rayz are being sent your way!

[dutchman]

Thank you for the update. We will continue to send rays that all continues well.

[Patt]

Thanks for the latest news, sending more rayz :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: for sweet little Rosie.

[TNGal]

Hi Joanh,

I just posted under general health, but I should have looked here first.

With Chloe it's muscular. A chronic problem that showed itself a year and a half ago, went away and just now flaired up.

Chloe's reacting just like Rosie - goes for acupuncture, seems better and happy, then suddenly not so good. It's kind of off and on. Supposedly this is normal but it's very scary and frustrating. I really sympathize.

Good luck with everything. Let us know how things are going.

Linda

[lotsadox]

Thanks for the update. I know how hard this is for you. I've been through it twice. Sending rayz for both of you. :rayz: :rayz: :rayz: :rayz:

[joanh]

Dear Linda & All,

Thanks so much for your encouragment. I'm sorry about Chloe. You are right . . . I do know what you are going through as do so many of our friends here.

Rosie believes she is fine!! She had a total of 4 acupuncture treatments and the vet is very happy with her progress. I stopped the tranquilizers a week ago, because she didn't seem to be getting any better and I needed to know for sure. Well, now she wants to run around and play. I understand it's way to early for that. The vet and I decided swimming would be good. So I filled up my giant spa tub and she swam around chasing a ball for about 15 minutes today. But, it just got her soooooooooo worked up. Now, she cries in her crate. (heartbreaking) I let her out for short times in a confined area but she is WILD . . . I can't keep her still, so back in the crate she goes. So my plan for now is one more week in the crate (that will be about 40 days in the crate) and then back to my original vet for an opinion. Maybe a long walk on a leash will be OK and give her a chance to use up some of that energy. I'll ask next week. I'm gating the stairs and putting a ramp on the couch when she does get out. I've heard some opinions that she needs 3 months in the crate! What do you all think? The crying is breaking my heart but I'm so afraid of a relapse that I won't let her out!

[Funny Girl]

Hi Joan,

Any news on Rosie?

~Susan~

[joanh]

Hi Susan,

Rosie is. . . well I can't get myself to say "recovered", because I'm so worried about a relapse, but she is out of the crate. (She was in it about 40 days.) Of course, things have changed somewhat. I've tried to stop the jumping as best I can. The stairs are now gated and I'm still confining her to small area. She is her old self, running and wanting to jump everywhere. She will simply jump into the air like a dolphin, how do I stop that? I'm running behind her yelling at her to stop, but she just doesn't get it, she feels fine. I'm sure it's quite comical to watch. But she does respond to "no" if I see her about to jump on the couch. That's the only furniture she can jump on, and I'm getting a ramp. I hope she will use it. I feel blessed that she has recovered, at least this time, but I realize she does have some sort of disk disease and I worry. (I'm a worrier anyway!) So it will be a lifetime of being careful & Ester C 2x a day. I'm so grateful to all the wonderful people here who have been so supportive and informative. You all have made a difference!

How is Funny Girl doing? Is she going to remain an "only dog" or are you thinking about a puppy? I've always had 2 dogs too, to keep each other company. Our family beagle, Daisy, passed last year at 14 years old. But I think playing with a puppy would be bad for Rosie's back so she'll be a spoiled only dog.


Take care ... Have a nice Easter.

Joan

[doxunzX3]

Glad to hear your little girl is doing better. There are so many different opinions on back problems. I know what it is like to worry about them too. It is so great to know that the alternative medicenes are working for her. Even if you have a ramp chances are she will still try the jumping herself. Darn doxies if they only would realise what they are doing to themselfs. I have a ramp and they don't use it either. Thanks for keeping us posted on her condition. She sounds like a handful of love and energy. :luvlove:
lets play :happy:
OK can we go swimming in the big tub again. :tongue:

[Funny Girl]

Well it certainly seems like you're doing the best you can...
getting a ramp should really help!
Gating the stairs is another precaution. I would do both of those
things too.
About jumping in the air, ya know, we can't avoid every single thing, Rosie's gotta live life to some extent anyway!:)
If she hurts her back again you'll just need to "go with the flow"
again.
How old is she again?? She may "outgrow" the jumping in the air
or at least slow down with time.

I don't know if you've heard about CareCredit ?
www.carecredit.com
When Funny Girl had her surgery I applied for credit and was
approved on the spot, so that is how I payed for her surgery.
Just to let ya know about this option, should you ever need it.

Funny Girl is doing good, thanks for asking!
She's nearly 10 years old (I got her when she was 7 yrs. old)
so she's nearing her senior life.
She is pretty much an
Alpha , and when I had Freddie too, she let him know it!
Since she's the only dog now, she seems perfectly content.
She sleeps a lot, but still has spunk.
She's really a low maintenance dog.
I really don't feel it would be fair to her to add another dog
at this stage of her life.
At least not a young dog. Maybe an older one would be ok,
by that I mean at least 4 or so.
I think about getting another Dachsie all the time though,
because I do miss the "cute antics" of siblings.:D
So I don't know...time will tell!

Glad to hear Rosie is doing well!:)

Susan

[lotsadox]

I'm glad Rosie's doing well! I know what you mean about the jumping in the air. I have a 4 year old that does the same thing. Some things you just can't prevent. Mine use the ramp pretty well and that does help. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Patt]

Thanks for the update so glad to hear that Rosie is doing so well. Have no clue how to stop her from jumping in the air maybe in time it won't be as much fun and she'll change on her own. We switched to a ramp and both the dogs like it very much. :D